Calgary Public Transit - Discussion

[Amethyst]

Originally Posted by getbak

When did they start running 4 car trains again? Are they only doing it certain days/times?

I saw it last week and was surprised because I hadn't seen any news reports about them starting again.

They were doing it during Stampede. I assumed it was just a Stampede thing. I haven't really taken the train much this summer though.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Oh no, Calgary Transit has gone woke...

Calgary Transit announces purchase of 120 new electric buses

https://www.ctvnews.ca/calgary/artic...source=bluesky

Article actually comments that because of federal grants they could have only afforded about 80-90 CNG buses. Chose electric to get the grant, and a Larger fleet.

But what I'm surprised it doesn't mention is the lower overall maintenance cost, and the longer vehicle life expectancy, which should return operational savings.

There are some Problems with deploying buses like these wide, because some routes are longer than 4 hours or however long these batteries will last in the winter (just intuitively comparing it to my EVs, should would do about 4 hours of city driving in the coldest weather, might be very different) , and that while house do have existing grid infrastructure for charging about 1 car at a time. The Bus Barns probably do not have the grid infrastructure to support charging dozens to hundreds of buses at a time per location. But I'm guessing those are very manageable problems for less then 10% of the fleet. It also may be that by owning these buses their route planning and maintenance crews can get some real world experience with all of those issues.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by #-3

Article actually comments that because of federal grants they could have only afforded about 80-90 CNG buses. Chose electric to get the grant, and a Larger fleet.

But what I'm surprised it doesn't mention is the lower overall maintenance cost, and the longer vehicle life expectancy, which should return operational savings.

There are some Problems with deploying buses like these wide, because some routes are longer than 4 hours or however long these batteries will last in the winter (just intuitively comparing it to my EVs, should would do about 4 hours of city driving in the coldest weather, might be very different) , and that while house do have existing grid infrastructure for charging about 1 car at a time. The Bus Barns probably do not have the grid infrastructure to support charging dozens to hundreds of buses at a time per location. But I'm guessing those are very manageable problems for less then 10% of the fleet. It also may be that by owning these buses their route planning and maintenance crews can get some real world experience with all of those issues.

Put Diesel Generators in them all, call them 'Hybrids' and problem solved!

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Locke

Put Diesel Generators in them all, call them 'Hybrids' and problem solved!

Those are better than hybrids, at least the electric motor still works when the diesel engine fails.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by #-3

Article actually comments that because of federal grants they could have only afforded about 80-90 CNG buses. Chose electric to get the grant, and a Larger fleet.

But what I'm surprised it doesn't mention is the lower overall maintenance cost, and the longer vehicle life expectancy, which should return operational savings.

There are some Problems with deploying buses like these wide, because some routes are longer than 4 hours or however long these batteries will last in the winter (just intuitively comparing it to my EVs, should would do about 4 hours of city driving in the coldest weather, might be very different) , and that while house do have existing grid infrastructure for charging about 1 car at a time. The Bus Barns probably do not have the grid infrastructure to support charging dozens to hundreds of buses at a time per location. But I'm guessing those are very manageable problems for less then 10% of the fleet. It also may be that by owning these buses their route planning and maintenance crews can get some real world experience with all of those issues.

Had a little giggle, just because it wasn't that many years ago we had buses still running from what looked like the 70's.


Oh, hey, a wiki! Thinking of the 900-1016 numbers retired in 2013. I'll be very impressed if these electric buses last 30-35 years. Not saying it's a bad buy, but I'd imagine they'd need to have the entire electric system replaced a few times over 30 years.


https://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/Calg...Retired_Roster

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by #-3

But what I'm surprised it doesn't mention is the lower overall maintenance cost, and the longer vehicle life expectancy, which should return operational savings.

They probably don't want to get ahead of themselves, given the trial experiences seen elsewhere in North America like Edmonton.

[para transit fellow]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Had a little giggle, just because it wasn't that many years ago we had buses still running from what looked like the 70's.


Oh, hey, a wiki! Thinking of the 900-1016 numbers retired in 2013. I'll be very impressed if these electric buses last 30-35 years. Not saying it's a bad buy, but I'd imagine they'd need to have the entire electric system replaced a few times over 30 years.


https://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/Calg...Retired_Roster

those old GMC "jimmies" had multiple mid life refurbishments to last that long.

For fleet planning discussions, American transit systems sell their buses after 12 years. Canadian transit systems scrap their buses after 20 years

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by accord1999

They probably don't want to get ahead of themselves, given the trial experiences seen elsewhere in North America like Edmonton.

Edmonton's issues weren't because the busses were electric though. They bought a crappy design that was uncomfortable for drivers, from a small manufacturer based in the southern US that weren't built for our climate, that went bankrupt so couldn't get any support or even spare parts.

The ones Calgary bought are from a major manufacturer they've already bought other models from, built in Canada, and are already in use across the country with good reviews.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by btimbit

The ones Calgary bought are from a major manufacturer they've already bought other models from, built in Canada, and are already in use across the country with good reviews.

The LFSE+ model has a lot of orders but looking at CPTDB's list of Nova VINs from 2022-2025, there seems to be only about 40 buses actually in service in Canada right now.

https://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/Nova_Bus_2023_VINs

The TTC had a recent update where they mentioned they've received 11 buses from Nova but only one was in revenue service (at the end of June) so I think it's still early to say how good this particular model will really be long-term as batteries age.

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/...ile-257225.pdf

The other issue is that the original plan was for 259 electric buses. Now it's still the same $443M budget but only for 120 buses. At that per-bus cost, it's doubtful any operating cost benefit will ever make up for that capital cost... If it wasn't for the Federal Government only funding electric buses.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Edmonton's issues weren't because the busses were electric though. They bought a crappy design that was uncomfortable for drivers, from a small manufacturer based in the southern US that weren't built for our climate, that went bankrupt so couldn't get any support or even spare parts.

The ones Calgary bought are from a major manufacturer they've already bought other models from, built in Canada, and are already in use across the country with good reviews.

So, basically, E=NG?