Barn Burner: The Boys are Back!! (Boomer, Pinder & Warrener)

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You believe, and have stated, that they are unfit to make their own decisions. You have arrogated to yourself the authority to make those decisions for them. You have clearly stated your belief that you know better than they do how to conduct their careers and defend their persons.

Arguing whether or not you actually used the word ‘stupid’ is the merest, footling pedantry. You have made it clear that you regard hockey players as intellectually incapable of looking after their own interests, and needing someone to dictate to them what their interests are and how they should be protected from themselves.

I am very glad that you are not in any position of authority over them, or over me. I hope you are not in a position of authority over anyone else. You believe your own righteousness empowers you to dictate other people's lives. I regard that as an abomination.

What are you talking about?

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Goriders

What are you talking about?

the TLDR is a section of fans discredit the authority of the NHLPA to make decisions about long term player safety with respect to how strict rules against fighting are. The under pinning of this is that players historically have been resistant to changes in safety equipment. The subtext is that these fans are making the argument that players cannot make a decision what is best for themselves, the rhetoric of which makes it sound like players are too stupid to choose what the rule should be. Some of this is projecting, but some of it is people saying players have too many brain injuries to make good choices anymore, which is patronizing to say the least.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

A not insignificant number of athletes are notorious for resisting safety changes, even ones we all accept as objectively “good” or “smart” decisions.

It took 15 years between Plante wearing a goalie mask and goalie masks becoming universally adopted.

It took 10+ years between helmets becoming mandatory and helmets being universally adopted.

It’s taken 10+ years between visors becoming mandatory and visors being universally adopted (there are still a couple stragglers).

And we can assume it will take a similarly long time between when neck guards are made mandatory and when they become universally adopted.

These are all safety advancements that are scientifically proven to reduce injuries and, in some cases, death. Even when mandatory and widely adopted, we have ample evidence that given an avenue not to, some of those directly involved do not make the smartest decision and argue against safety improvements. This is very true historically in the NHL, F1, the NBA, the NFL, etc. This does not mean all athletes are “too stupid.” But often there is a lack of education involved:



https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/634...-nhl-playoffs/

If players don’t have all the information, are feeling pressured, or are physically/mentally unable (due to a head injury) of making an educated decision, how are they supposed to make one?

They can be terrible about making these decisions for the reasons above. It doesn’t make them “too stupid.”

Not to discredit the point you're making, but to try an contextualize it better, most of the points you are making relate to players being resistant to changes in equipment rules. I think you've demonstrated well that this is a proven trend. That said, you don't directly make any points where there are changes to game play rules that increase safety that were disliked. The changes to rules about hits to the head, fight instigators ( staging fights), removing helmets before fights, or hybrid icing have all been well received.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Not to discredit the point you're making, but to try an contextualize it better, most of the points you are making relate to players being resistant to changes in equipment rules. I think you've demonstrated well that this is a proven trend. That said, you don't directly make any points where there are changes to game play rules that increase safety that were disliked. The changes to rules about hits to the head, fight instigators ( staging fights), removing helmets before fights, or hybrid icing have all been well received.

That’s not true at all. You can look up “players complaining about ___” and you’ll find results citing some players and teams’ resistance to every one of them.

I’m also not sure what your point is. The article I cited directly talks about CTE and players needing to take a leadership role in treating concussions more seriously, it has nothing to do with equipment. It doesn’t even have anything to do with a rule change. If players and coaches can’t even voluntarily pull themselves or their teammates after an obvious hit to the head how much more likely do you think it is that they’ll support a rule change for it?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You believe, and have stated, that they are unfit to make their own decisions. You have arrogated to yourself the authority to make those decisions for them. You have clearly stated your belief that you know better than they do how to conduct their careers and defend their persons.

Arguing whether or not you actually used the word ‘stupid’ is the merest, footling pedantry. You have made it clear that you regard hockey players as intellectually incapable of looking after their own interests, and needing someone to dictate to them what their interests are and how they should be protected from themselves.

I am very glad that you are not in any position of authority over them, or over me. I hope you are not in a position of authority over anyone else. You believe your own righteousness empowers you to dictate other people's lives. I regard that as an abomination.

This is well beyond the threshold of a normal, healthy way to engage in a conversation, Jay. This doesn’t come off as eloquent and powerful as you think it does, at all. It’s extremely weird and makes you look unwell.

We’re talking about a rule change in hockey. No position anyone has said is anything close to an “abomination.” Relax. Or don’t participate if you can’t help but imagine others as dictators and abominations.

[Harry Lime]

I'm not sure what this thread is for, but I thought that I'd ask it here.

I've been listening to some Barnburner, while I work in the mornings, and thought that Cami was one of their better guest hosts. Does she have her own podcast, or show, or was this just moonlighting?

[TheScorpion]

Cami is so good. She works for the WHL so their website is where you can find her most of the time. Regularly features on AfterBurner throughout the Flames season; she's my favourite co-host to work with.