Israel declares war on Hamas

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Do you enjoy wallowing in ignorance? I never understood that position, to be so boisterously proud of ignoring reality. Where'd you learn that skill?


Protip, first result on google. Give it a try sometime, it's a kinda handy tool.




https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/13/polit...aza/index.html

Your article that I've actually read before mentions that Israel used 40-45% unguided munitions. It doesn't specify which missions were deemed safe to use unguided munitions vs guided ones. It's also a question of money, if you have an area where you don't have civilians you don't have to use guided munitions.

Also that means that 55-60% of the time Israel used the more expansive guided munitions exactly so it could avoid unnecessary casualties.

Then it adds they typical anti Israeli CNN spin. What's next BBC?

Here's are a couple of questions for you:
1) how many of the missiles launched at Israel are guided munitions?
2) did you complain about those munitions being used in Syria by Asad, and Russia?

That's why Israel purchased, and used a huge amount of JDAMs since the start of the war. That's not enough though, you always demend perfection from Israel.

[Fuzz]

Ya, nevermind, you are absolutely not worth the effort. Keep cheering on your murderous team, one day it'll lead to peace, I'm sure.

[gvitaly]

Keep supporting terrorists, just because the media tells you they're the underdog.

Next time try actually living there, I did. I have family in the military right now, hopefully they live through this, and others in bomb shelters. None of them wants to kill Palestinians, but they won't accept a reality where they get peppered with rockets at will.

Actions have consequences. So start calling for the terrorists to waive the white flag and release the hostages.

[Fuzz]

Sure, OK. Hamas, release the hostages and surrender. Oh look, it didn't work, because they are terrorists. Next? Guess that means Israel has no other choice than to slaughter innocents, devastate the region, and continue to take land in the West Bank and destroy Palestinian towns and cities. Makes sense. They'll bomb their way to peace any day now.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Sure, OK. Hamas, release the hostages and surrender. Oh look, it didn't work, because they are terrorists. Next? Guess that means Israel has no other choice than to slaughter innocents, devastate the region, and continue to take land in the West Bank and destroy Palestinian towns and cities. Makes sense. They'll bomb their way to peace any day now.

No, no, next is for all those innocents to overthrow their Hamas buddies. Not let them use their houses, tents, to store weapons and shoot munitions. Not let them dig themselves within the population.

The population needs to keep cooperating with the IDF until the hostages are back and Hamas is disarmed.

Letting Hamas rebuild, and repeat everything in 5-10 years is your solution.

The key is for Israel to start distributing the aid going into Gaza instead of letting Hamas line their pockets with stealing it, and controling the people with food.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

No, no, next is for all those innocents to overthrow their Hamas buddies. Not let them use their houses, tents, to store weapons and shoot munitions. Not let them dig themselves within the population.

The population needs to keep cooperating with the IDF until the hostages are back and Hamas is disarmed.

Letting Hamas rebuild, and repeat everything in 5-10 years is your solution.

You should also start by not letting your terrorist family members kill more innocent people.

The Israeli population needs to take control of their terrorists and make sure they stop slaughtering innocents.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

You should also start by not letting your terrorist family members kill more innocent people.

The Israeli population needs to take control of their terrorists and make sure they stop slaughtering innocents.

Cute, calling my family terrorists. Even though you know nothing about them, you already assume they're killing innocents because they're Israeli. That just shows me you're a racist.

All those innocents that shoot rockets and fight in civilian clothes, sure.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Cute, calling my family terrorists. Even though you know nothing about them, you already assume they're killing innocents because they're Israeli. That just shows me you're a racist.

All those innocents that shoot rockets and fight in civilian clothes, sure.

Anyone in Hamas is a terrorist to me. Their friends and family dont have a right to be offended if they're called that.

Same goes to anyone in the IDF. They're all terrorists to me. People who love killing in the name of the group they belong to are terrorists.

I'm sure there are some Hamas members who are there for different reasons but they're still a terrorist. Same with the IDF. If you're part of an army that killed 15000 children in the last year then the blood is on your hands as well.

I'm against the killing of anyone innocent, unlike you.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

Anyone in Hamas is a terrorist to me. Their friends and family dont have a right to be offended if they're called that.

Same goes to anyone in the IDF. They're all terrorists to me. People who love killing in the name of the group they belong to are terrorists.

I'm sure there are some Hamas members who are there for different reasons but they're still a terrorist. Same with the IDF. If you're part of an army that killed 15000 children in the last year then the blood is on your hands as well.

I'm against the killing of anyone innocent, unlike you.

Comparing the IDF to Hamas is complete nonsense. The Hamas answers to no one. They shot unarmed civilians, elated, and recorded themselves doing it. If an IDF soldier did it he would end up in prison. The IDF charter and regulations do everything to follow the International humanitarian law outlined in the Geneva conventions.

Now you assume that the IDF loves killing. It's an army, and it's mandatory conscription for anyone who turns 18 in Israel, with a couple of minor exceptions. I'm sure that the vast majority of its soldiers never killed anyone, or have been on the front lines.

Finally, you've never been on a battlefield, and never experienced the raw emotion of being thrust into war. Mistakes do happen, a lot, because fear, and human errors are still factors. It's awfully convenient criticizing soldiers from your comfy couch.

It's interesting you're trying to spin it as though I support the killing of innocents. It couldn't be farther from the truth. No one wants to see innocents die. However, leaving Hamas in power would truly mean that all those innocents that died on both sides, died for nothing. Israel as a country isn't going anywhere.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

It's interesting you're trying to spin it as though I support the killing of innocents. It couldn't be farther from the truth. No one wants to see innocents die. However, leaving Hamas in power would truly mean that all those innocents that died on both sides, died for nothing. Israel as a country isn't going anywhere.

All those innocents did die for nothing. Do you actually think a greater peace that what we’ve seen over the past 20 years is going to come out of this? lol

Israel isn’t going anywhere now and it wasn’t in any greater danger of that a year ago.

What has been accomplished? Who is coming out of this better off right now? How many lives are better today than a year ago?

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Comparing the IDF to Hamas is complete nonsense. The Hamas answers to no one. They shot unarmed civilians, elated, and recorded themselves doing it. If an IDF soldier did it he would end up in prison. The IDF charter and regulations do everything to follow the International humanitarian law outlined in the Geneva conventions.

Now you assume that the IDF loves killing. It's an army, and it's mandatory conscription for anyone who turns 18 in Israel, with a couple of minor exceptions. I'm sure that the vast majority of its soldiers never killed anyone, or have been on the front lines.

Finally, you've never been on a battlefield, and never experienced the raw emotion of being thrust into war. Mistakes do happen, a lot, because fear, and human errors are still factors. It's awfully convenient criticizing soldiers from your comfy couch.

It's interesting you're trying to spin it as though I support the killing of innocents. It couldn't be farther from the truth. No one wants to see innocents die. However, leaving Hamas in power would truly mean that all those innocents that died on both sides, died for nothing. Israel as a country isn't going anywhere.

Regarding israel not shooting unarmed civilians, did you actually not follow along the last year?

I don't even need to point to the IDF shooting unarmed Palestinians, they literally shot 3 unarmed israeli hostages. Is the recording what you found evil? Not the killing?

So you don't think you could do anything to stop the IDF from killing innocent people? Why do you think Gazans have the power to stop Hamas? Kind of convenient criticizing Gazan civilians for not stopping terrorists from your comfy couch.

Also nobody here has ever said israel is going anywhere. Almost every single person in here who are speaking out against Israel's actions have called for a 2 state solution. Israel is not going anywhere and neither are the Palestinians so they better learn to get along.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

Regarding israel not shooting unarmed civilians, did you actually not follow along the last year?

I don't even need to point to the IDF shooting unarmed Palestinians, they literally shot 3 unarmed israeli hostages. Is the recording what you found evil? Not the killing?

So you don't think you could do anything to stop the IDF from killing innocent people? Why do you think Gazans have the power to stop Hamas? Kind of convenient criticizing Gazan civilians for not stopping terrorists from your comfy couch.

Also nobody here has ever said israel is going anywhere. Almost every single person in here who are speaking out against Israel's actions have called for a 2 state solution. Israel is not going anywhere and neither are the Palestinians so they better learn to get along.

I know the IDF kills innocent civilians, it's unavoidable in urban warfare, that said they don't do it intentionally. Yes, I'm sure that Israeli soldiers wouldn't execute a civilian with his/her hands up bagging on his or her knees. More over they don't celebrate killing innocents. The elation is evil, the killing in cold blood of an unarmed opponent. It's vastly different than when a plane drops a bomb due to bad Intel that kills civilians. It's different than being in a firefight and accidentally shooting a civilian.

The killing of the 3 Israeli hostages happened because there were ambushes luring soldiers in, in the area. After the incident it was reviewed, and the IDF went over the fire opening regulations with all soldiers. Pretty sure that incident also happened at night, but I can't remember.

No, I couldn't stop the IDF from harming civilians because of how embedded Hamas is within the Gazan population. I think they're doing their best, in an attempt to minimize the damage to civilians.

Yes, I think that the people in Gaza could overthrow a much weakened Hamas, by being informants for Israel.

[Zary's-Mustache]

It being nighttime (it wasn't) excuses Israel shooting 3 unarmed civilians who are shirtless and waiving a white flag?

IDF does that all the time even with journalists and then say "Oops, mistakes happen". They are not mistakes, Israel is purposely killing civilians.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

It being nighttime (it wasn't) excuses Israel shooting 3 unarmed civilians who are shirtless and waiving a white flag?

IDF does that all the time even with journalists and then say "Oops, mistakes happen". They are not mistakes, Israel is purposely killing civilians.

You know 2 million bullets would be a lot cheaper for Israel than what this war cost. Why won't they do that if genocide, or killing civilians was the goal? Because that never was the goal.

It's interesting you can completely dismiss it being a nightmare, and the sort of ambushes Hamas had in the area at the time. I don't know what the soldiers saw or suspected at the time. And if the investigation had shown that the soldier simply wanted to execute a civilian I would fully support him being imprisoned for life.

As far as the journalist, being in a mob throwing rocks at soldiers, with the intent of harming those soldiers is a dangerous spot to be in. Even a civilian throwing rocks can cause deadly harm to a soldier, there were instances of that before. Shooting is completely justifiable in that instance. Maybe they'll learn to stop throwing rocks at soldiers.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I missed this topic,

It appears you also missed answering the questions question in your haste to try and justify the genocide.

Here. Try again.

Originally Posted by Bagor

Do you find the deliberate killing of Palestinian civilians by Israel to be acts of terrorism just as everyone in this thread is in agreement that the deliberate killing of a Israeli civilians by Hamas is?

If not. Why not. What's the difference?

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Second it's called counter-terrorism when you target terrorists in a pretty direct attack.

You heard it here first. Deliberately targetting young children and blowing their heads off is "counter-terrorism".

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Ya, nevermind, you are absolutely not worth the effort. Keep cheering on your murderous team, one day it'll lead to peace, I'm sure.

It’s probably not a surprise that there is a ton of overlap between pro-Israeli government people and far right Trump supporters.

- Accusing mainstream American media, where Israel holds the highest amount of support worldwide, of being “anti-Israel.”
- Placing all responsibility on innocent Palestinians and none on anyone else (not just innocent Israelis but IDF as well)
- Suggesting people should be shot and killed for even being near people throwing rocks
- Wishing death on basically anyone who disagrees with them

This type of person has zero interest in peace. It’s nice that gvalty wants to play pretend peace maker, but he’s one of the few people who has actively wished death on other people here. The guy is as low as anyone cheering on Hamas.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Bagor

It appears you also missed answering the questions question in your haste to try and justify the genocide.

Here. Try again.





You heard it here first. Deliberately targetting young children and blowing their heads off is "counter-terrorism".

Lovely, how pro terrorists simply try to spin anything you say, because they have no arguments really.

You're implying Israel is deliberately targeting civilians. It isn't.

What actually is happening though is that Hamas and the other terrorists groups operating in Gaza deliberately fight in civilian clothes and from within civilian population. That way either Israel accidentally kills civilians, or kills a terrorist that can be written off as a civilian without his AK or RPG.

Again using children to make a point, a 15-17 year old holding a gun is also considered a child. A child Hamas kills in Gaza because his parents did something to upset the Hamas is also blamed on Israel.

If an ammunition depot explodes and a child is near by, again Israel is killing children.

A Hamas rocket misfires and falls in Gaza killing a child, yep it's Israel yet again.

If Israel was trying to commit genocide it wouldn't need to risk one soldier. Simply shoot anything that moves and call it a day. For some reason though, it has been almost a year, and still Israel didn't even manage to get all the hostages back because of how careful it is under the circumstances Hamas has created.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Lovely, how pro terrorists simply try to spin anything you say, because they have no arguments really.

Love the unintentional humour in calling people “pro terrorists” and then accusing others of spinning things because they have no argument, and doubling down by spinning civilian deaths as lies and conspiracies against Israel lol.

I feel bad for innocent Israelis that have people like this representing them.

[Fuzz]

You are so certain that Israel has no desire to kill more than necessary, and you justify that position by saying they could, and haven't, so won't. Let me ask you this, did Hitler go immediately to killing all the Jews, or was it a long process?