Israel declares war on Hamas

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Do you enjoy wallowing in ignorance? I never understood that position, to be so boisterously proud of ignoring reality. Where'd you learn that skill?


Protip, first result on google. Give it a try sometime, it's a kinda handy tool.




https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/13/polit...aza/index.html

Your article that I've actually read before mentions that Israel used 40-45% unguided munitions. It doesn't specify which missions were deemed safe to use unguided munitions vs guided ones. It's also a question of money, if you have an area where you don't have civilians you don't have to use guided munitions.

Also that means that 55-60% of the time Israel used the more expansive guided munitions exactly so it could avoid unnecessary casualties.

Then it adds they typical anti Israeli CNN spin. What's next BBC?

Here's are a couple of questions for you:
1) how many of the missiles launched at Israel are guided munitions?
2) did you complain about those munitions being used in Syria by Asad, and Russia?

That's why Israel purchased, and used a huge amount of JDAMs since the start of the war. That's not enough though, you always demend perfection from Israel.

[Fuzz]

Ya, nevermind, you are absolutely not worth the effort. Keep cheering on your murderous team, one day it'll lead to peace, I'm sure.

[gvitaly]

Keep supporting terrorists, just because the media tells you they're the underdog.

Next time try actually living there, I did. I have family in the military right now, hopefully they live through this, and others in bomb shelters. None of them wants to kill Palestinians, but they won't accept a reality where they get peppered with rockets at will.

Actions have consequences. So start calling for the terrorists to waive the white flag and release the hostages.

[Fuzz]

Sure, OK. Hamas, release the hostages and surrender. Oh look, it didn't work, because they are terrorists. Next? Guess that means Israel has no other choice than to slaughter innocents, devastate the region, and continue to take land in the West Bank and destroy Palestinian towns and cities. Makes sense. They'll bomb their way to peace any day now.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Sure, OK. Hamas, release the hostages and surrender. Oh look, it didn't work, because they are terrorists. Next? Guess that means Israel has no other choice than to slaughter innocents, devastate the region, and continue to take land in the West Bank and destroy Palestinian towns and cities. Makes sense. They'll bomb their way to peace any day now.

No, no, next is for all those innocents to overthrow their Hamas buddies. Not let them use their houses, tents, to store weapons and shoot munitions. Not let them dig themselves within the population.

The population needs to keep cooperating with the IDF until the hostages are back and Hamas is disarmed.

Letting Hamas rebuild, and repeat everything in 5-10 years is your solution.

The key is for Israel to start distributing the aid going into Gaza instead of letting Hamas line their pockets with stealing it, and controling the people with food.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

No, no, next is for all those innocents to overthrow their Hamas buddies. Not let them use their houses, tents, to store weapons and shoot munitions. Not let them dig themselves within the population.

The population needs to keep cooperating with the IDF until the hostages are back and Hamas is disarmed.

Letting Hamas rebuild, and repeat everything in 5-10 years is your solution.

You should also start by not letting your terrorist family members kill more innocent people.

The Israeli population needs to take control of their terrorists and make sure they stop slaughtering innocents.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

You should also start by not letting your terrorist family members kill more innocent people.

The Israeli population needs to take control of their terrorists and make sure they stop slaughtering innocents.

Cute, calling my family terrorists. Even though you know nothing about them, you already assume they're killing innocents because they're Israeli. That just shows me you're a racist.

All those innocents that shoot rockets and fight in civilian clothes, sure.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Cute, calling my family terrorists. Even though you know nothing about them, you already assume they're killing innocents because they're Israeli. That just shows me you're a racist.

All those innocents that shoot rockets and fight in civilian clothes, sure.

Anyone in Hamas is a terrorist to me. Their friends and family dont have a right to be offended if they're called that.

Same goes to anyone in the IDF. They're all terrorists to me. People who love killing in the name of the group they belong to are terrorists.

I'm sure there are some Hamas members who are there for different reasons but they're still a terrorist. Same with the IDF. If you're part of an army that killed 15000 children in the last year then the blood is on your hands as well.

I'm against the killing of anyone innocent, unlike you.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

Anyone in Hamas is a terrorist to me. Their friends and family dont have a right to be offended if they're called that.

Same goes to anyone in the IDF. They're all terrorists to me. People who love killing in the name of the group they belong to are terrorists.

I'm sure there are some Hamas members who are there for different reasons but they're still a terrorist. Same with the IDF. If you're part of an army that killed 15000 children in the last year then the blood is on your hands as well.

I'm against the killing of anyone innocent, unlike you.

Comparing the IDF to Hamas is complete nonsense. The Hamas answers to no one. They shot unarmed civilians, elated, and recorded themselves doing it. If an IDF soldier did it he would end up in prison. The IDF charter and regulations do everything to follow the International humanitarian law outlined in the Geneva conventions.

Now you assume that the IDF loves killing. It's an army, and it's mandatory conscription for anyone who turns 18 in Israel, with a couple of minor exceptions. I'm sure that the vast majority of its soldiers never killed anyone, or have been on the front lines.

Finally, you've never been on a battlefield, and never experienced the raw emotion of being thrust into war. Mistakes do happen, a lot, because fear, and human errors are still factors. It's awfully convenient criticizing soldiers from your comfy couch.

It's interesting you're trying to spin it as though I support the killing of innocents. It couldn't be farther from the truth. No one wants to see innocents die. However, leaving Hamas in power would truly mean that all those innocents that died on both sides, died for nothing. Israel as a country isn't going anywhere.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

It's interesting you're trying to spin it as though I support the killing of innocents. It couldn't be farther from the truth. No one wants to see innocents die. However, leaving Hamas in power would truly mean that all those innocents that died on both sides, died for nothing. Israel as a country isn't going anywhere.

All those innocents did die for nothing. Do you actually think a greater peace that what we’ve seen over the past 20 years is going to come out of this? lol

Israel isn’t going anywhere now and it wasn’t in any greater danger of that a year ago.

What has been accomplished? Who is coming out of this better off right now? How many lives are better today than a year ago?

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Comparing the IDF to Hamas is complete nonsense. The Hamas answers to no one. They shot unarmed civilians, elated, and recorded themselves doing it. If an IDF soldier did it he would end up in prison. The IDF charter and regulations do everything to follow the International humanitarian law outlined in the Geneva conventions.

Now you assume that the IDF loves killing. It's an army, and it's mandatory conscription for anyone who turns 18 in Israel, with a couple of minor exceptions. I'm sure that the vast majority of its soldiers never killed anyone, or have been on the front lines.

Finally, you've never been on a battlefield, and never experienced the raw emotion of being thrust into war. Mistakes do happen, a lot, because fear, and human errors are still factors. It's awfully convenient criticizing soldiers from your comfy couch.

It's interesting you're trying to spin it as though I support the killing of innocents. It couldn't be farther from the truth. No one wants to see innocents die. However, leaving Hamas in power would truly mean that all those innocents that died on both sides, died for nothing. Israel as a country isn't going anywhere.

Regarding israel not shooting unarmed civilians, did you actually not follow along the last year?

I don't even need to point to the IDF shooting unarmed Palestinians, they literally shot 3 unarmed israeli hostages. Is the recording what you found evil? Not the killing?

So you don't think you could do anything to stop the IDF from killing innocent people? Why do you think Gazans have the power to stop Hamas? Kind of convenient criticizing Gazan civilians for not stopping terrorists from your comfy couch.

Also nobody here has ever said israel is going anywhere. Almost every single person in here who are speaking out against Israel's actions have called for a 2 state solution. Israel is not going anywhere and neither are the Palestinians so they better learn to get along.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

Regarding israel not shooting unarmed civilians, did you actually not follow along the last year?

I don't even need to point to the IDF shooting unarmed Palestinians, they literally shot 3 unarmed israeli hostages. Is the recording what you found evil? Not the killing?

So you don't think you could do anything to stop the IDF from killing innocent people? Why do you think Gazans have the power to stop Hamas? Kind of convenient criticizing Gazan civilians for not stopping terrorists from your comfy couch.

Also nobody here has ever said israel is going anywhere. Almost every single person in here who are speaking out against Israel's actions have called for a 2 state solution. Israel is not going anywhere and neither are the Palestinians so they better learn to get along.

I know the IDF kills innocent civilians, it's unavoidable in urban warfare, that said they don't do it intentionally. Yes, I'm sure that Israeli soldiers wouldn't execute a civilian with his/her hands up bagging on his or her knees. More over they don't celebrate killing innocents. The elation is evil, the killing in cold blood of an unarmed opponent. It's vastly different than when a plane drops a bomb due to bad Intel that kills civilians. It's different than being in a firefight and accidentally shooting a civilian.

The killing of the 3 Israeli hostages happened because there were ambushes luring soldiers in, in the area. After the incident it was reviewed, and the IDF went over the fire opening regulations with all soldiers. Pretty sure that incident also happened at night, but I can't remember.

No, I couldn't stop the IDF from harming civilians because of how embedded Hamas is within the Gazan population. I think they're doing their best, in an attempt to minimize the damage to civilians.

Yes, I think that the people in Gaza could overthrow a much weakened Hamas, by being informants for Israel.