Quote:
Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen
Has he distinguished himself from that group? I wouldn't even put him in that group.
Messier, Yzerman and Sakic all have Conn Smythes to go along with their Hart Trophies and Ted Lindsay awards.
Fedorov was Selke level defense while still a threat for the Art Ross (finished second behind some guy named Gretzky one year he won the Selke).
I think I might underrate Bergeron. I mean it's no small feat to be nominated for the Selke 9 years and going. He's won pretty much everything including a game 7 Stanley Cup Winning goal on the resume. But has he ever been even a nominee for the Hart or Lindsay? Like I think his highest placing was fifth one year for the Hart, and never really close any other year (prepared to eat crow though). Heck, I don't think he's even been named to the Second-Team All-Star. I think that's pretty telling.
Don't get me wrong, he's obviously an extremely good player that I would have killed to have on the Flames. But like I don't think of him when I think of that second tier of centers.
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I think I agree with you, I'm mostly just thinking out loud.
Yzerman/Sakic/Fedorov/Forsberg/Lindros filled the gap between Gretz/Lemieux and Crosby, whereas this current group has been more in the shadow of Crosby/Ovi.
I think it might be that the past generation pyramids itself out pretty naturally (vs the current one that seems like a logjam):
1960-1973
1. Gretz/Lemieux
2. Mess/Yzerman/Sakic
3a. Fedorov/Forsberg/Lindros
(super high peaks; not much longevity or success on their own compared to group 2 without their 1B)
3b. Francis/Oates/Gilmour/Hawerchuk/Modano
4. Sundin/Turgeon/Roenick/Damphousse/Brind'Amour/Lafontaine/D Savard/Nieuwendyk/etc
3b vs. 4 are pretty close and you could argue a few guys up or down.
If we go back a bit earlier, it isn't too hard to slot the 50's births: Dionne (3b), Stastny (3a?), Trottier (2-3b?), Bobby Clarke (1949 - 2-3?), Sittler (3-4?)
Then there are several years without (m)any elite pure C's...1974-1983ish:
Thornton 1979
Datsyuk 1978 (though he really emerged post lockout with the next gen)
Sedin 1980
Zetterberg* 1980, Elias 1976, Marleau* 1979, Lecavalier 1980, B Richards, Spezza 1983 - Group 4 above?
* hybrid C/W
So there wasn't much talent to challenge Sakic et. al until after the missed season, and then things kinda exploded again from '84-'90, but in a bell curve.
1. Crosby
2. Malkin/Datsyuk/Bergeron/Kopitar/Toews/Getzlaf/Thornton/Sedin/Backstrom/E Staal/Zetterberg*
3. Krejci/Spezza/Tavares/Stamkos*/Giroux*/J Carter/M Richards/B Richards/Lecavalier/Couture
I'm probably missing a few. I could see bumping those last few of group 2 down. It's just tough to delineate group 2. For me, Bergeron, Datsyuk, and maybe Kopitar are the most complete and without any warts/caveats...but I can see arguments for all of the others, too!
Perhaps the answer is that all of Malkin-Thornton slot somewhere between my groups 3a. and 3b above?