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Calgary4LIfe · 07-28-2025, 11:48 AM

This is the 'spectrum' - at least how I see it:

Tanking - Rebuilding - Retooling/fine-tuning - Competing

Given all the vets that have been traded out for futures, the accumulation of draft picks used on selections in the draft rather than on established players, the number of vets on the team and the huge cap space used - I have this team FIRMLY in the "rebuilding" spectrum. I would even go as far as to say that this is a fairly deep rebuild.

If Andersson moves for picks/prospects, that pushes it towards - not quite over - the tanking line. Subtract Coleman at the trade deadline (I expect anyway), and you get within a whisker of a tank.

I think this will quickly turn into a tank with the Kadri wildcard here. Yeah yeah don't want to talk about Kadri, I get it. This is not a 'Flames should trade" Kadri post, so just relax. If the Flames come out of the gate a little slow and the losses start to pile up, then Andersson gets traded, and then Coleman gets traded. What would you do if you are Kadri? Do I ask to be moved this season, or take the chance that Conroy will NOT move me in the next two seasons at least, assuming I am not tired of the losses and where I live is more important to me than having a chance to win? Kadri has a full no move clause. He can exchange that for a small list of teams he is willing to go to this year, or he can roll the dice that next year Conroy won't trade him, and if he does, that he doesn't land on his 18th, 17th, 16th (etc) preferred spot. That's his conundrum this season to figure out (along with Conroy - I think the smart thing would to have a conversation about it). Point is, that if he is traded for futures along with Andersson and Coleman, I put this team on the "tanking spectrum".

I prefer not to tank to be honest. I prefer this deep rebuild. I also argue that this season you don't HAVE to tank to get a top 3 or 4 pick. What team is tanking? Chicago is likely going to be last, but they they aren't tanking - they are trying to improve. San Jose is definitely improved, but is likely to be in the bottom 3-5.

Everyone else is climbing. I would have said that the Flyers are likely to tank this year, but I think they actually improve. I think the 'floor' will raise this season. I think if you add up the point totals from last seasons' 5 worst teams, it will be noticeably lower than the point totals of this season's 5 worst teams. Pittsburgh to me is the wildcard here, but I do think that if they were going to tank this year, they would have made their moves by now.

Is Calgary adding or subtracting? I have them subtracting.

I do think that the Flames overachieved last season, and significantly so. I guess we will see what happens this season, but I have them in the 'deep rebuild', and I expect them to bottom-out over the next couple of seasons, and then start rising. Too much in the pipeline, and they have some decent young players already in the lineup as well. I don't think they hang around at the bottom of the standings for too long.

Also, count me out as someone who believes there is a mandate to win. Conroy would have been fired by now if that was the mandate. Conroy didn't even make a single move to prop-up the team at the deadline. This is not the body of work for someone that is mandated to try and get into the playoffs.

I also think that using Buffalo as an example of a rebuild should be a bannable offence:
1) They tanked, and didn't rebuild
2) They are a putrid organization. They have been for some time. They are no more a poster child for the rebuild as they were for a poster child for competing as they were trying to right before the rebuild.

Buffalo is a poster child for what happens when you have a terrible hockey operations, period. Likewise, Edmonton is not a poster child for rebuilding - they "Tried to compete all the way to McDavid". Remember Tambellini's ####-eating grin at the Hall draft? I remember Katz saying "This is the first and last time this happens!". Haha stupid Oilers!

Arizona - another bannable offence when it comes to rebuilding. They screwed up their move, period. They had to carry a light cap because of that. That's such a unique case.

I am not advocating that we simply cross every team off that has rebuilt in the last 20 seasons but didn't win a cup to prove a point. Just to dig a little deeper on things, that's all.

For instance, I have seen some posters make points like:
1) Blackhawks haven't made the playoffs in 7 of their last 8 season!
or
2) Blackhawks have been rebuilding for the last 5 seasons and they are nowhere close (this is the most common argument, thankfully).

This argument is basically trying to the start of a team's inability to make the playoffs to that of the start of a rebuild. Did the Flames start their rebuild in 2009-10? No, they didn't, so why not dig a little deeper and figure out when the Blackhawks started theirs? They started theirs at the 2022 deadline (IMO) when they traded Hagel away. Then that off-season, they traded Debrincat. They still had Toews and Kane. I actually think that they make an excellent poster child for what happens when you refuse to rebuild. That's what Kane and Toews pressured the Blackhawks with - they fought against a rebuild. The Blackhawks became a poorly managed team - in addition to being a despicably-run franchise (but that's a different point I guess).

I count 4 tankers off the top of my head since I can remember (and I am sure there have been more).
1) Pittsburgh for Lemieux - won a cup.
2) Colorado in their post-Roy era - Burke made the claim that the draft lottery rules were changed because of them specifically at a season ticket holder event - they won a cup
3) Buffalo for McDavid - no cup
4) Arizona - I think they tried to tank over a few years - would accumulate a lot of dead salaries, and traded away decent players trying to remain bad, but maybe others won't agree.

Either way, I hope that the Flames don't burn it down and tank. However, I used to believe this destroyed a team's culture. I know Conroy has stated as much saying that he doesn't feel it is fair to say it is ok to lose, and then to ask them to turn the dial back up. I think you don't accept any player turning down that dial - they play hard regardless of the win or loss record. You just build a team that is designed to fail. A good example of that in which I feel gets forgotten was the 2013-14 Flames. That team played hard all the time, but lost much more than they won. However, they were often serenaded by the fans at the Dome with a standing ovation after many losses. I haven't forgotten that at all. I think coaching has been the single biggest factor here in Calgary when it comes to culture. I do worry about it disappearing, but it has disappeared and reappeared plenty in this organization over the years, even within the last era with Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

Still wouldn't be happy with an all-out tank, however. If there was a window to do one, it is the next 2-3 drafts, however. I just think that the Flames bottom-out during this period. Still get great lottery odds at a "Franchise-Superstar", but also likely to draft high-end core players just a few spots back. Flames will find a few diamonds too like they did with Gaudreau, Brodie, Ferland, etc.

One 'alternate timeline' that I hope gets repeated (but fixed this time!) is when the Flames took Wotherspoon and were going to take Kucherov next, and Gaudreau the following pick. By how this organization is drafting now, I think they would take Kucherov this time around (and Point over Smith too). If you remember, Panarin had decided to leave the KHL and come to the NHL in the 2015-16 season, and had Calgary as one of his final 4 teams he was considering signing with, before ultimately picking Chicago. I bet that if the Flames had Kucherov, he would have likely signed here that year. I like to live in that dream.

07-28-2025, 11:48 AM	#6287
Calgary4LIfe Franchise Player Join Date: Jun 2010 Exp:	This is the 'spectrum' - at least how I see it: Tanking - Rebuilding - Retooling/fine-tuning - Competing Given all the vets that have been traded out for futures, the accumulation of draft picks used on selections in the draft rather than on established players, the number of vets on the team and the huge cap space used - I have this team FIRMLY in the "rebuilding" spectrum. I would even go as far as to say that this is a fairly deep rebuild. If Andersson moves for picks/prospects, that pushes it towards - not quite over - the tanking line. Subtract Coleman at the trade deadline (I expect anyway), and you get within a whisker of a tank. I think this will quickly turn into a tank with the Kadri wildcard here. Yeah yeah don't want to talk about Kadri, I get it. This is not a 'Flames should trade" Kadri post, so just relax. If the Flames come out of the gate a little slow and the losses start to pile up, then Andersson gets traded, and then Coleman gets traded. What would you do if you are Kadri? Do I ask to be moved this season, or take the chance that Conroy will NOT move me in the next two seasons at least, assuming I am not tired of the losses and where I live is more important to me than having a chance to win? Kadri has a full no move clause. He can exchange that for a small list of teams he is willing to go to this year, or he can roll the dice that next year Conroy won't trade him, and if he does, that he doesn't land on his 18th, 17th, 16th (etc) preferred spot. That's his conundrum this season to figure out (along with Conroy - I think the smart thing would to have a conversation about it). Point is, that if he is traded for futures along with Andersson and Coleman, I put this team on the "tanking spectrum". I prefer not to tank to be honest. I prefer this deep rebuild. I also argue that this season you don't HAVE to tank to get a top 3 or 4 pick. What team is tanking? Chicago is likely going to be last, but they they aren't tanking - they are trying to improve. San Jose is definitely improved, but is likely to be in the bottom 3-5. Everyone else is climbing. I would have said that the Flyers are likely to tank this year, but I think they actually improve. I think the 'floor' will raise this season. I think if you add up the point totals from last seasons' 5 worst teams, it will be noticeably lower than the point totals of this season's 5 worst teams. Pittsburgh to me is the wildcard here, but I do think that if they were going to tank this year, they would have made their moves by now. Is Calgary adding or subtracting? I have them subtracting. I do think that the Flames overachieved last season, and significantly so. I guess we will see what happens this season, but I have them in the 'deep rebuild', and I expect them to bottom-out over the next couple of seasons, and then start rising. Too much in the pipeline, and they have some decent young players already in the lineup as well. I don't think they hang around at the bottom of the standings for too long. Also, count me out as someone who believes there is a mandate to win. Conroy would have been fired by now if that was the mandate. Conroy didn't even make a single move to prop-up the team at the deadline. This is not the body of work for someone that is mandated to try and get into the playoffs. I also think that using Buffalo as an example of a rebuild should be a bannable offence: 1) They tanked, and didn't rebuild 2) They are a putrid organization. They have been for some time. They are no more a poster child for the rebuild as they were for a poster child for competing as they were trying to right before the rebuild. Buffalo is a poster child for what happens when you have a terrible hockey operations, period. Likewise, Edmonton is not a poster child for rebuilding - they "Tried to compete all the way to McDavid". Remember Tambellini's ####-eating grin at the Hall draft? I remember Katz saying "This is the first and last time this happens!". Haha stupid Oilers! Arizona - another bannable offence when it comes to rebuilding. They screwed up their move, period. They had to carry a light cap because of that. That's such a unique case. I am not advocating that we simply cross every team off that has rebuilt in the last 20 seasons but didn't win a cup to prove a point. Just to dig a little deeper on things, that's all. For instance, I have seen some posters make points like: 1) Blackhawks haven't made the playoffs in 7 of their last 8 season! or 2) Blackhawks have been rebuilding for the last 5 seasons and they are nowhere close (this is the most common argument, thankfully). This argument is basically trying to the start of a team's inability to make the playoffs to that of the start of a rebuild. Did the Flames start their rebuild in 2009-10? No, they didn't, so why not dig a little deeper and figure out when the Blackhawks started theirs? They started theirs at the 2022 deadline (IMO) when they traded Hagel away. Then that off-season, they traded Debrincat. They still had Toews and Kane. I actually think that they make an excellent poster child for what happens when you refuse to rebuild. That's what Kane and Toews pressured the Blackhawks with - they fought against a rebuild. The Blackhawks became a poorly managed team - in addition to being a despicably-run franchise (but that's a different point I guess). I count 4 tankers off the top of my head since I can remember (and I am sure there have been more). 1) Pittsburgh for Lemieux - won a cup. 2) Colorado in their post-Roy era - Burke made the claim that the draft lottery rules were changed because of them specifically at a season ticket holder event - they won a cup 3) Buffalo for McDavid - no cup 4) Arizona - I think they tried to tank over a few years - would accumulate a lot of dead salaries, and traded away decent players trying to remain bad, but maybe others won't agree. Either way, I hope that the Flames don't burn it down and tank. However, I used to believe this destroyed a team's culture. I know Conroy has stated as much saying that he doesn't feel it is fair to say it is ok to lose, and then to ask them to turn the dial back up. I think you don't accept any player turning down that dial - they play hard regardless of the win or loss record. You just build a team that is designed to fail. A good example of that in which I feel gets forgotten was the 2013-14 Flames. That team played hard all the time, but lost much more than they won. However, they were often serenaded by the fans at the Dome with a standing ovation after many losses. I haven't forgotten that at all. I think coaching has been the single biggest factor here in Calgary when it comes to culture. I do worry about it disappearing, but it has disappeared and reappeared plenty in this organization over the years, even within the last era with Gaudreau and Tkachuk. Still wouldn't be happy with an all-out tank, however. If there was a window to do one, it is the next 2-3 drafts, however. I just think that the Flames bottom-out during this period. Still get great lottery odds at a "Franchise-Superstar", but also likely to draft high-end core players just a few spots back. Flames will find a few diamonds too like they did with Gaudreau, Brodie, Ferland, etc. One 'alternate timeline' that I hope gets repeated (but fixed this time!) is when the Flames took Wotherspoon and were going to take Kucherov next, and Gaudreau the following pick. By how this organization is drafting now, I think they would take Kucherov this time around (and Point over Smith too). If you remember, Panarin had decided to leave the KHL and come to the NHL in the 2015-16 season, and had Calgary as one of his final 4 teams he was considering signing with, before ultimately picking Chicago. I bet that if the Flames had Kucherov, he would have likely signed here that year. I like to live in that dream.