Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community - View Single Post - Tracking the anti-LBGTQ+ movement

opendoor · 06-23-2025, 01:18 PM

I think that's probably a pretty naive viewpoint though. Republican and right wing messaging has been effective because they have no problem lying to a generally angry electorate and blaming everyone's problems on certain out groups. A sober, liberal, centrist response to that really can't compete, because it's boring and no one really listens to it. It just comes across as out of touch to people who are angry.

And by largely trying to meet extremists in the middle in an attempt to attract voters who will never vote for you anyway (see Harris' dragging out Liz Cheney in the campaign), you're also conceding ground and/or basically ignoring important issues which allows the right to constantly pick away at what were once considered settled things. That's why you see things like Roe v Wade disappearing and LGBTQ rights being eroded.

You saw the same thing during the civil rights era. Slow progress while largely maintaining "separate but equal" was probably appealing to a lot of centrists because it didn't change things too fast. As a result, the civil rights movement that wanted more drastic change than that generally polled pretty poorly; even as late as 1964, polls showed people viewed large demonstrations for civil rights negatively at a 3:1 to 5:1 ratio to those who viewed them positively. And the only way meaningful change actually happened was with the federal government enforcing action on a largely unwilling populace.

What's the solution? I honestly don't really know. In terms of trans rights specifically, they really need to re-frame it as a question of liberty and freedom. But focusing on pragmatism and the marketplace of ideas when your opponents are anti-democratic extremists has never really been successful because you're working from a position of weakness relative to your opponents.

I mean, there's a reason why Charles Koch is helping fund the abundance movement that Ezra Klein is championing and that's because it doesn't present a threat to the increasing concentration of wealth and power that billionaires are after (and in fact supports it in a lot of ways). And the fallout from that (stagnant real wages, increasing income inequality, declining union membership, etc.) are really what's allowing culture war stuff to gain traction. So to win the culture war you need to improve the economic conditions for the working class, but no one with any power in either party seems particularly interested in doing that.

06-23-2025, 01:18 PM	#586
opendoor Franchise Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Exp:	I think that's probably a pretty naive viewpoint though. Republican and right wing messaging has been effective because they have no problem lying to a generally angry electorate and blaming everyone's problems on certain out groups. A sober, liberal, centrist response to that really can't compete, because it's boring and no one really listens to it. It just comes across as out of touch to people who are angry. And by largely trying to meet extremists in the middle in an attempt to attract voters who will never vote for you anyway (see Harris' dragging out Liz Cheney in the campaign), you're also conceding ground and/or basically ignoring important issues which allows the right to constantly pick away at what were once considered settled things. That's why you see things like Roe v Wade disappearing and LGBTQ rights being eroded. You saw the same thing during the civil rights era. Slow progress while largely maintaining "separate but equal" was probably appealing to a lot of centrists because it didn't change things too fast. As a result, the civil rights movement that wanted more drastic change than that generally polled pretty poorly; even as late as 1964, polls showed people viewed large demonstrations for civil rights negatively at a 3:1 to 5:1 ratio to those who viewed them positively. And the only way meaningful change actually happened was with the federal government enforcing action on a largely unwilling populace. What's the solution? I honestly don't really know. In terms of trans rights specifically, they really need to re-frame it as a question of liberty and freedom. But focusing on pragmatism and the marketplace of ideas when your opponents are anti-democratic extremists has never really been successful because you're working from a position of weakness relative to your opponents. I mean, there's a reason why Charles Koch is helping fund the abundance movement that Ezra Klein is championing and that's because it doesn't present a threat to the increasing concentration of wealth and power that billionaires are after (and in fact supports it in a lot of ways). And the fallout from that (stagnant real wages, increasing income inequality, declining union membership, etc.) are really what's allowing culture war stuff to gain traction. So to win the culture war you need to improve the economic conditions for the working class, but no one with any power in either party seems particularly interested in doing that.