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Calgary4LIfe · 05-20-2025, 01:33 PM

We probably should have another "Rank the GMs" since the Treliving era is over, and there has probably been enough hindsight to rank him fairly among his predecessors. I so far like the work that Conroy has been doing, but he is in year 2 of X. I would rather rank a GM based on his entire tenure. At any rate, since we are talking about this...

It is really unfair to rank some GMs actually. For instance, Flecher was AWESOME... Flames went to the finals and won a cup with him, and made the playoffs what - 14? 15? - straight seasons under his watch? However, why was he a good GM? Was it that the Flames simply chose to hang onto him for a very long time until he became very good? Over 20 seasons worth of experience starting with Atlanta in '72.

Sutter was a GOD in the first half of his tenure, and then he became the devil. How do you rank that?

How do you rank Coates who made some very astute moves and guides this organization through some incredibly difficult hurdles, but didn't even make the playoffs?

Here is my list. I don't include "interim" GMs - Burke and Maloney - as they were doing that job for too short a stretch. However, Burke did guide this team through two important phases during his term - the trade deadline and the draft. I still think it is just too short a time to really rank either of them.

1) Fletcher - SCF + Cup. Nevermind a bunch of divisional champs and President's Trophy finishes (which I don't really care too much about).

2) Sutter. I expect people to disagree with me on this one, but that's ok. He built a SCF team (and a phantom goal away from a championship team). He was here for 7 years. I will be happy to cheer for a complete loser if it means a SCFs appearance once in 7 years, right? Who wouldn't be ok with that? It certainly has been a lot better than what the Flames have managed to do since '89. I have no choice but to rank him #2. Also, let's not forget that the first half of his term he was operating under some challenges - cap at first, then scouting and development which essentially non-existent when he took over. Flames were still operating as a bare-bones franchise, even sharing an AHL team. The rise of the Canadian dollar certainly helped fix things, but credit also has to go to him for helping to build the scouting department, bringing in development personnel, and convincing the owners to spend money on an AHL team that they could control. Sutter did a lot of good, and yes, he definitely did a lot of bad as well. In the world of professional sports, your successes are more remembered than your failures, and as I said, give me one finals appearance and 7 no-shows, and I will be happy with that. He exceeded it - Flames made the playoffs 5 straight years with Sutter.

3) Coates. This was a tough one between him and Treliving actually. I tip my hat to Coates just because he guided this franchise through the worst, and had very little tools at his disposal. The bad dollar, the 'disgust' that was prevalent with the Riseborough-teardown, the lack of scouting, the lack of development. Everything was being held together by a band-aid, and Calgary was a hair's breadth away from losing their team. Yes, that era sucked, but to his credit, it was a fairly competitive team that he had. Also brought in some very important pieces. Maybe I have a soft-spot for him, but I think he really helped guide this franchise through the very darkest days.

4) Treliving. I find it difficult to rank him higher since in the 9 seasons he was here for, he had a lot of resources. Flames scouting was already pretty good - and he improved upon it, to his credit. He did draft a foundational piece with Wolf by the looks of it so far, which is another credit. However, even with an even playing field in terms of the cap, a development team in place, an AHL franchise that is owned and controlled by the Flames, and starting off with a fairly blank slate in terms of contracts while also having Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Brodie, Backlund, and a great piece in Giordano - he was never really able to elevate this team. I don't give him credit for drafting Bennett (wasn't allowed to be part of the draft as per terms of his hiring), but he certainly gets credit for Tkachuk (and many other good hits too). Still - that's 9 seasons, and he didn't come close to building a contender. Maybe your definition will differ from my own, but I classify as contender as a team that is a shoe-in year-over-year for the playoffs, often a divisional winner, and who has a couple of 'runs' going to the 3rd round of the playoffs or beyond over that team's 'core' era. Flames weren't a regular playoff team, and they only twice made it to the 2nd round, upon which they lost both times in 5 games. He was very good in the media, however. He operated with class and professionalism, which is what this team needed after the tail-end of the Sutter era, and especially so after the Feaster era. Burke did put a stop to how the Flames were seen, but Treliving continued it right until the last year of his tenure.

5) Button. It was a short tenure. Rumour had it that he was handcuffed as well after Sutter was hired, so even a shorter tenure than it maybe was on paper. The most notable things he did was: A terrible trade with Marc Savard after the coach-player feuded, but then also fired the coach quickly afterwards. I can't remember if letting St. Louis walk was under him or Coates, but to me that wasn't too egregious since nobody saw St. Louis becoming that good. Still, if we are talking hindsight, that is a fairly big blemish. I don't feel he was as bad as some people think (apparently the Iginla for Peca deal was never offered, for instance), but I would put him at the start of poor GMs in the history of the Flames.

6) Feaster. He made Calgary embarrassing. He gave Regehr away for peanuts. He gave Iginla away for peanuts. He gave away Bouwmeester for peanuts. He may (depending on the MOU - I think he would have been ok) have given away Monahan's pick + for O'Reilly who would have been claimed off of waivers. The constant "we're smarter than everyone else" stink that came from the team at the time. For me, he would have been an easy 'last place' if not for a ridiculously worse GM. Arguably his best move was the failing at a pitch for Brad Richards, even though he offered the biggest contract.

7) Riseborough. I am sure he did good things, but for the life of me I can't remember what they were. We all loved the player that he was in Calgary. Flames were the best-managed team in the entire NHL under Fletcher, and then immediately went to the worst-managed team. The deconstruction of a winning organization with multiple HHOF players. Players quickly wanted out. He sold them for returns that were less than what Feaster got. Yes, this was the start of the low Canadian dollar era with aggressive cost cutting year-over-year, but he pushed players out unnecessarily. He was Calgary's version of Milbury.

Conroy's tenure would be unfair to rank IMO. Just two years in. Sutter may have been ranked #1 after his first two years, no? I love the work that Conroy is doing, but I think you have to let the tenure come to an end, and then proabably even wait another couple of years to see how some of his moves played-out. For instance, huge credit has to given to Treliving for drafting Wolf, right? I do mostly approve of what Conroy has been doing so far, but I don't think you can rank him yet.

One thing that I noted - very few GMs were hired with previous actual GM experience (Feaster only), and very few have gone on to be GMs on other teams (Fletcher, Treliving and strangely enough - Riseborough!). Flames either can't attract top-level GMs, are aren't willing to pay top-level salary. I think it is the former rather than the latter. Same thing was said about coaching, but Hartley wasn't cheap, Sutter certainly wasn't cheap, and they don't seem to have an issue with firing a coach (even a highly paid one), regardless of how many years left. When was the last time a coach left because he wasn't extended? They also have greatly expanded hockey ops over the years, surrounded Conroy with experienced (and not cheap) help (Nonis, Maloney, Pascal) and even brought Iginla on-board. That doesn't scram penny-pinching to me.

My opinion is that GMs have a tough gig now. Gone are the days of 20 year tenures. That era has officially come to an end with Poile. I just really appreciate the fact that the Flames have groomed Conroy for this position long-term. They didn't do that with Sutter. I expect better things from Calgary over the next decade. As for Treliving, i don't think he was bad, but he just didn't get much accomplished in his tenure here. It was a rather forgettable decade other than Gaudreau dazzling us.

05-20-2025, 01:33 PM	#452
Calgary4LIfe Franchise Player Join Date: Jun 2010 Exp:	We probably should have another "Rank the GMs" since the Treliving era is over, and there has probably been enough hindsight to rank him fairly among his predecessors. I so far like the work that Conroy has been doing, but he is in year 2 of X. I would rather rank a GM based on his entire tenure. At any rate, since we are talking about this... It is really unfair to rank some GMs actually. For instance, Flecher was AWESOME... Flames went to the finals and won a cup with him, and made the playoffs what - 14? 15? - straight seasons under his watch? However, why was he a good GM? Was it that the Flames simply chose to hang onto him for a very long time until he became very good? Over 20 seasons worth of experience starting with Atlanta in '72. Sutter was a GOD in the first half of his tenure, and then he became the devil. How do you rank that? How do you rank Coates who made some very astute moves and guides this organization through some incredibly difficult hurdles, but didn't even make the playoffs? Here is my list. I don't include "interim" GMs - Burke and Maloney - as they were doing that job for too short a stretch. However, Burke did guide this team through two important phases during his term - the trade deadline and the draft. I still think it is just too short a time to really rank either of them. 1) Fletcher - SCF + Cup. Nevermind a bunch of divisional champs and President's Trophy finishes (which I don't really care too much about). 2) Sutter. I expect people to disagree with me on this one, but that's ok. He built a SCF team (and a phantom goal away from a championship team). He was here for 7 years. I will be happy to cheer for a complete loser if it means a SCFs appearance once in 7 years, right? Who wouldn't be ok with that? It certainly has been a lot better than what the Flames have managed to do since '89. I have no choice but to rank him #2. Also, let's not forget that the first half of his term he was operating under some challenges - cap at first, then scouting and development which essentially non-existent when he took over. Flames were still operating as a bare-bones franchise, even sharing an AHL team. The rise of the Canadian dollar certainly helped fix things, but credit also has to go to him for helping to build the scouting department, bringing in development personnel, and convincing the owners to spend money on an AHL team that they could control. Sutter did a lot of good, and yes, he definitely did a lot of bad as well. In the world of professional sports, your successes are more remembered than your failures, and as I said, give me one finals appearance and 7 no-shows, and I will be happy with that. He exceeded it - Flames made the playoffs 5 straight years with Sutter. 3) Coates. This was a tough one between him and Treliving actually. I tip my hat to Coates just because he guided this franchise through the worst, and had very little tools at his disposal. The bad dollar, the 'disgust' that was prevalent with the Riseborough-teardown, the lack of scouting, the lack of development. Everything was being held together by a band-aid, and Calgary was a hair's breadth away from losing their team. Yes, that era sucked, but to his credit, it was a fairly competitive team that he had. Also brought in some very important pieces. Maybe I have a soft-spot for him, but I think he really helped guide this franchise through the very darkest days. 4) Treliving. I find it difficult to rank him higher since in the 9 seasons he was here for, he had a lot of resources. Flames scouting was already pretty good - and he improved upon it, to his credit. He did draft a foundational piece with Wolf by the looks of it so far, which is another credit. However, even with an even playing field in terms of the cap, a development team in place, an AHL franchise that is owned and controlled by the Flames, and starting off with a fairly blank slate in terms of contracts while also having Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Brodie, Backlund, and a great piece in Giordano - he was never really able to elevate this team. I don't give him credit for drafting Bennett (wasn't allowed to be part of the draft as per terms of his hiring), but he certainly gets credit for Tkachuk (and many other good hits too). Still - that's 9 seasons, and he didn't come close to building a contender. Maybe your definition will differ from my own, but I classify as contender as a team that is a shoe-in year-over-year for the playoffs, often a divisional winner, and who has a couple of 'runs' going to the 3rd round of the playoffs or beyond over that team's 'core' era. Flames weren't a regular playoff team, and they only twice made it to the 2nd round, upon which they lost both times in 5 games. He was very good in the media, however. He operated with class and professionalism, which is what this team needed after the tail-end of the Sutter era, and especially so after the Feaster era. Burke did put a stop to how the Flames were seen, but Treliving continued it right until the last year of his tenure. 5) Button. It was a short tenure. Rumour had it that he was handcuffed as well after Sutter was hired, so even a shorter tenure than it maybe was on paper. The most notable things he did was: A terrible trade with Marc Savard after the coach-player feuded, but then also fired the coach quickly afterwards. I can't remember if letting St. Louis walk was under him or Coates, but to me that wasn't too egregious since nobody saw St. Louis becoming that good. Still, if we are talking hindsight, that is a fairly big blemish. I don't feel he was as bad as some people think (apparently the Iginla for Peca deal was never offered, for instance), but I would put him at the start of poor GMs in the history of the Flames. 6) Feaster. He made Calgary embarrassing. He gave Regehr away for peanuts. He gave Iginla away for peanuts. He gave away Bouwmeester for peanuts. He may (depending on the MOU - I think he would have been ok) have given away Monahan's pick + for O'Reilly who would have been claimed off of waivers. The constant "we're smarter than everyone else" stink that came from the team at the time. For me, he would have been an easy 'last place' if not for a ridiculously worse GM. Arguably his best move was the failing at a pitch for Brad Richards, even though he offered the biggest contract. 7) Riseborough. I am sure he did good things, but for the life of me I can't remember what they were. We all loved the player that he was in Calgary. Flames were the best-managed team in the entire NHL under Fletcher, and then immediately went to the worst-managed team. The deconstruction of a winning organization with multiple HHOF players. Players quickly wanted out. He sold them for returns that were less than what Feaster got. Yes, this was the start of the low Canadian dollar era with aggressive cost cutting year-over-year, but he pushed players out unnecessarily. He was Calgary's version of Milbury. Conroy's tenure would be unfair to rank IMO. Just two years in. Sutter may have been ranked #1 after his first two years, no? I love the work that Conroy is doing, but I think you have to let the tenure come to an end, and then proabably even wait another couple of years to see how some of his moves played-out. For instance, huge credit has to given to Treliving for drafting Wolf, right? I do mostly approve of what Conroy has been doing so far, but I don't think you can rank him yet. One thing that I noted - very few GMs were hired with previous actual GM experience (Feaster only), and very few have gone on to be GMs on other teams (Fletcher, Treliving and strangely enough - Riseborough!). Flames either can't attract top-level GMs, are aren't willing to pay top-level salary. I think it is the former rather than the latter. Same thing was said about coaching, but Hartley wasn't cheap, Sutter certainly wasn't cheap, and they don't seem to have an issue with firing a coach (even a highly paid one), regardless of how many years left. When was the last time a coach left because he wasn't extended? They also have greatly expanded hockey ops over the years, surrounded Conroy with experienced (and not cheap) help (Nonis, Maloney, Pascal) and even brought Iginla on-board. That doesn't scram penny-pinching to me. My opinion is that GMs have a tough gig now. Gone are the days of 20 year tenures. That era has officially come to an end with Poile. I just really appreciate the fact that the Flames have groomed Conroy for this position long-term. They didn't do that with Sutter. I expect better things from Calgary over the next decade. As for Treliving, i don't think he was bad, but he just didn't get much accomplished in his tenure here. It was a rather forgettable decade other than Gaudreau dazzling us.