Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden
By the Logic of your Archeological argument, should the Blackfoot be allowed to take your home and force your family onto the streets? Or to bomb the city that you live in?
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I think it is worth describing Israeli independence here:
The breakup of the Ottoman empire resulted in multiple nations created, including Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Israel (and many others - several dozen in fact). Of the Middle East, Israel got the smallest slice which was even made smaller upon Israel's independence.
Jews were always in Palestine, which was a region but not an independent country, at least since Judea. As the Jewish population increased in the 1900s, so too did Muslims, as the Jewish people were bringing industry and commerce to the area. There was certainly violence, generally from both sides, but most typically against Jews, across the middle east. Note that there are only a few million Jews on the entire planet, with just half in Israel (maybe 8 million).
Israel did not have a goal to kick out any Muslims, in fact they wanted them to be part of this new country (where none existed previously, at least since Judea). Israel brought human rights, freedoms and the ability for all world religions to practice as they saw fit. Clearly Israel was hoping that the positive treatment of Muslims would be looked positively by the neighbors. Israel didn't just unilaterally 'own' everything, they were just the government for a region that was British and before that Ottoman. It never had a president or something of that sort.
Upon independence, Israel was attacked by multiple nations, their goal was to destroy Israel - the region also ethnically cleansed basically 100% of the Jews from their countries, in numbers greater than Palestinians who fled the war of independence. The Nakba was born from those attacks, some label it as Israel 'ethnically cleansing' Muslims, Israel vehemently does not agree - there was no policy to kick anyone out. Villages got destroyed, but there was a massive war, a life or death struggle for Israel that at that time did not have the USA helping, at all. Some villages were targeted by Israel others by invading armies, who clearly laid out their goal, destroy the jews while proudly telling Muslims to leave so they can do their job. Muslims that stayed in Israel are full citizens of Israel with equal rights, those that left are not citizens of Israel.
Jews with WW2 experience repelled the attackers, a true miracle from the Israeli perspective considering how outnumbered they were. Destruction from both sides forced people deeper into Israel or outside Israel, to places like Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon, where those same people exist today (in many cases, such as Lebanon, they don't get citizenship and are deprived of human rights, including not able to own land or homes, can't have certain jobs, etc.).
Israel is a sliver of land, about the size of four PEIs, and as part of October 7th, was the target of multiple countries, including Iran, Gaza, Lebanon and Yemen. Had Israel not demonstrated overwhelming force, who knows what other nations would have joined in on the attacks.
Israel has been involved in numerous wars in the region, Israel can demonstrate in each case, they were defensive wars. For all the land Israel gained in those wars, they have returned it for peace. Without peace being accepted, Israel holds those locations. In the case of the Palestinians, they have made peace offerings which were rejected by Palestinians multiple times. Post WW2, many nations lost land in wars, and Israel giving the land back for peace demonstrates their ability to move forward.
Now we can debate what I wrote and I am sure the TikTok generation will be inflamed with what I wrote, but that generally captures the history of Israel. They get attacked, the defend themselves, they make peace, and if they don't make peace, they hold onto whatever gains they made with the offer of land for peace. Meanwhile, Israel has been used as a scapegoat for each dictator in the region, blaming Israel for the woes of their nations, indoctrinating generation after generation to hate the jews. Israel certainly is hardened from all of this, a reasonable outcome of being in the crosshairs of multiple nations and Islamic terror groups. Meanwhile, Israel respects human rights for all, treats women as equals, treats the LGBT community positively, defends the ancient history of the land and provides for peaceful coexistence between religions.
The amount of ridiculous offensive remarks in this thread are evidence of the bias against .02 percent of the planet. Many of the posters having completely gone mad, others I feel like they can learn, as I do. Much of the Middle East has already joined Israel or are in the process of doing so, they see the futility of poisoning their populations with hate, time to move on.
Until October 7, I personally did not know another Jew that did not want a two state solution, it just needed to guarantee the safety of both sides. Now I don't think I know a single person that believes Palestinians should or will ever have a state. To Israel, to family that lives there, Gaza is no different than ISIS, Al Qaeda or whatever other terror group. Twenty years of rocket attacks while the UN laughed at them, then October 7. No more, that is their bottom line.