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Originally posted by Agamemnon+Jan 18 2005, 11:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Agamemnon @ Jan 18 2005, 11:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
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Originally posted by Bring_Back_Shantz@Jan 18 2005, 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by Agamemnon@Jan 18 2005, 10:01 AM
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@Jan 18 2005, 03:42 PM
It's not a matter of pushing for better benefits that people don't like, it's a culture of rewarding people for nothing more than getting old. If you work too hard you're told to cool it because you're doing too much (I actually had a friend who worked for the city of Victoria and got in trouble from his union because he wasn't taking all his breaks). But if you just ride out your time, you get better wages and benefits. Sorry, but I think those things should be based on merit not seniority.
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Do we not currently 'reward' people for growing old by giving them pensions? Haven't we conceded the elderly the right to survive despite the fact that they can (often) no longer work? Companies and the Government both provide pensions to people when they hit 65, for doing nothing more than getting to that age.
Unions have provided blue-collar jobs with middle-class lives. Today.
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No, we don't reward them for getting old, we reward them for working for their entire life. Should we take care of the elderly? Yes, I've never said anything different. Should we encourage them to be lazy their entire career knowing that they'll still get better wages/benfits and vactaion when they get older? Absolutely not. Work hard and do your best, if you do that you'll do just fine. The union motto seems to be do the minimum and you'll do better than the guy trying to work hard, because you'll fly under the radar while this guy get's punished for breaking union rules (like working too hard).
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I'm pretty sure if you're 65 and Canadian, you don't have to have worked at all to receive a pension. Widowers who have never worked a day in their lives receive their deceased partners pensions. Should these widows be 'rewarded' for not working at all? Talk about lazy... right?
I'm also pretty sure that all Unions do not have some kind of 'don't work hard' motto. When I was unionized I was more afraid of my union rep than my manager, and was made to pull my weight very quickly.
As I said before, Unions have provided Middle-class lives for blue-collar jobs. They may cause innefficiencies, and there are probably examples of abuses. Regardless, the way of life they've provided for manufacturing and service jobs is one that is probably not achieveable without organized negotiation.
If Unions are so bad, do you think they should be abolished in North America? [/b][/quote]
No, I've never said they should be abolished. But they sure as hell shouldn't be run the way they are now. They've for the most part achieved their goals of safe work environments and retirement benefits. It's time to start working on the inefficneices of the unions themselves. Why can't union members wages/benefits/job security be based on merit just like everyone of us non-unionized folk?