[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

“Losing the argument”? relax Mel, this is just a conversation, you’re not “getting the dub” or “dishing out L’s” lol. My position is pretty straightforward and unemotional, so you can keep making up narratives about what’s going on in my head until it makes you feel better, but I’m pretty nonplussed about it.

... whoa, f-ckin' rude, motherf-cker. You don't see me going around calling you Mel. Jesus.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

But literally true, in exactly the scenario I laid out.

Sure, in the same way a law banning all people who devoutly call themselves vegans from eating meat does, or prohibiting lesbians from dating Piers Morgan... actually, that last one... he was the pigeon lady in Home Alone 2, so maybe... eh, nah, it counts.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

They don’t, as they remove at least some of the right areas for the right reasons, and leave other areas that aren’t right or could be deployed for the wrong reasons, which calls into question whether that’s something you actually care about.

If I'm reading the changes correctly, cities can apply to add sites outside the three exemption areas to the photo enforcement program provided they have enough evidence that there is a safety issue there that needs addressing. So again, with the time between the announcement date and the new laws, they should be gathering data that justifies these sites being added back. Acey can correct me if I'm wrong.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Policing in the name of revenue is not inherently bad to me, so long as the resources generated substantially outweigh the resources spent and there’s no discrimination and the police treat people well. Photo radar checks all those boxes. You speed, you get a ticket; you don’t, you won’t. It increases revenue they can use to police and, more importantly, it means law abiding citizens have to pay less for it. I get you think all of that is bad, no confusion there. I’m just rejecting some of the reasons presented, because it’s clear people are just glomming onto some that make their position sound more righteous.

And I get that too, saying you’re against “predatory, exploitative policing!” and “safety first! right areas! right reasons!” sounds way cooler than “I just hate photo radar.” But it kind of falls apart as soon as you look at the changes and realize… oh yeah, those changes are a genuinely terrible way to accomplish those things you care about.

Financially motivated policing at the expense of effective measures being implemented elsewhere are with what I have a problem. Photo radar isn't the traffic version of chasing tax evaders.

I think concealed photo radar is also a genuinely awful way to improve safety and reduce speeding. Making them bright, obnoxious, and in-your-face is a better way to slow people down in areas where safety is a concern. Limiting governments and police organizations from enforcing laws in needlessly predatory ways is also important.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

And conveniently not mentioned here, is that they’re also forcing the removal of speed on green cameras. Care to explain how that helps… anyone? That’s not exactly a fleet car they just move around.

Do you know what the top 2 SoG sites are as of May 2024?

In first with 19,175 tickets issued is this one: https://maps.app.goo.gl/ccSE48tTMhhN7ySE7
Beddington Trail and Country Hills Boulevard N.W.
- Expressway-type limited access roadways at this particular section
- Zero pedestrian movements at the intersection
- No right-hand turns from the intersecting roadway (theres a free-flow merge ramp to join southbound)


Second place with 16,814, this one: https://maps.app.goo.gl/9GDZPbAFwyyTbyEx5
16th Avenue and 68th Street N.E. (eastbound)
- Targeting the direction of traffic entering the highway portion of the roadway, signed at 80 but immediately increases to 90 after.
- No right-hand turns from the intersecting roadway (theres a free-flow merge ramp to join eastbound)
- Note that the westbound direction (entering the city) isn't nearly as busy snapping pictures because people are slowing down to enter the city

These two are the SoG version of the Airport Trail photo radar truck. Oh, and Airport Trail is THE top PR earner by a MASSIVE margin with 22,311 tickets issued. Next site is the fenced-in playground on 12 Ave SW between 11 St and 10 St with a measly 4,824.
[source]


As for the reason SoG wasn't mentioned, it's because this thread was started to talk about the new 'ghost' decals on regular police cruisers to which I made the argument that this is a bad thing because visibility is itself a crime deterrent. But then Johnny Makarov flew in like a thread-crapping seagull and just had to go bring up bloody photo radar which has been debated to death and isn't what the thread was about in the first place, but here we are, debating what is already a done deal.

Aside, I know taking shots at calgarygeologist is a fun passtime, but there is some significance to what he mentioned WRT the ABNDP. When the UCP implemented the first wave of their photo radar rollbacks, the ABNDP at the time insisted that it didn't go far enough and that an outright ban and dismantling of the automated camera enforcement program was in order. So the two biggest parties in the province both happened to agree that how PR was being used in this province is a bad thing, one just happened to roll it back gently versus a full scale shutdown.