[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Ped

Look, there's no denying that there are bad unions, in that they don't do much for their workers, or make a lot of false promises. I've been involved with unions on both sides of the table, and there are absolutely unions that take advantage of workers, particularly workers who don't have or are interested in knowing how things in their workplace actually work.

I think you’ve presented most of your post in a fair manner, even if I don’t agree with all of your positions. But I am kind of curious as to how you feel that a union has taken advantage of workers? That isn’t to say you might not have a reasonable example for how they have, it’s just I can’t really think of a scenario where they could since they have to take their direction from their members who are the ones who decide which contracts they accept, job action and whether they want to be represented by that union. But if it is happening, despite what some might think I actually want unions that don’t do what they’re supposed to do to be held accountable by their members.

Based on the entirety of your post I think it’s fair to say you agree that even if hypothetically there are some cases of unions not doing the absolute best they can for workers it’s probably a far smaller number than that of employers who don’t either. So really it’s a case of not letting perfect be the enemy of good. Appreciate your post.

Or it may be accurate to say, there are bad locals. I've been involved with more than one local from one particular large union, and in the first place, they were great for the workers, and in the second place, they were terrible for the workers, where after being unionized for around 15 years now, their wages are no better than their non-union equivalent, and in many cases are worse.

But even there, they do have better benefits then their non-union equivalent, so they may be better off when you look at the cost of everything.

But far too many people forget that even in a non-union workplace, you get that pay and those benefits largely because a union fought for them somewhere, and your company probably offers the same things to be competitive.

All of these things can be true. In which case the biggest difference between a union and non-union workplace that pay comparable wages/benefits is that the unionized employees have what they are receiving guaranteed by their collective agreements so the terms and conditions of their employment cannot be arbitrarily altered without their agreement. That and the added job protection of their employer not being able to terminate their employment without just cause.