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Originally Posted by Bill Bumface
I'll bite, and hope that you'll respond thoughtfully:
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I always do despite some of the allegations from the usual suspects.
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Originally Posted by Bill Bumface
Zionism is a form of colonialism, and we have enough history on colonialism to say that while good things can come of it, there is a heavy price to be paid by the colonized people. Israel the country may very well be more prosperous, safe and healthy now because of Zionism, but it was at the expense of suffering of other people to get there. Does the end justify the means? That's the debate I guess, and we can have the same one about Canada.
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I disagree. Zionism was the attempt at undoing the colonialism. Many countries were created at the time Israel was created, included almost all of Israel's neighbors. Once the Ottoman empire ended, the Brits were basically tasked with nation building, along with the UN.
Israel received the smallest portion of the land and they were asked again to divide it another time, but the Palestinians refused. Israel said yes, they said no. Israel provided human rights which many other of the neighbors did not. Anyway, not only was Israel created, the neighbors kicked all the jews out (the real ethnic cleansing that people are searching for) and then invaded Israel. Israel did not start these wars but I think it was inevitable, not even if Israel existed, but any nation on the edges of the current Islamic empire.
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Originally Posted by Bill Bumface
Was Zionism necessary in a post World War II landscape? I think at the very least it's completely understandable. You saw a group of people face an existential threat, and most of the global community turned their backs on them. I think you can argue that during that period, Zionism was a clear path to defend against those threats.
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It certainly proved to be true. Every jew was kicked out of the countries surrounding Israel while Israel maintained their Muslim population, and those same countries have made antisemitism a real focus, through government, schools and religion.
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Originally Posted by Bill Bumface
Is Zionism today a bad thing? In my opinion yes. Segregated societies are not long term solutions, and the existence of Zionism destabilizes the region. It's time to evolve and find an inclusive path forward for Israel. Yes their neighbours make that a difficult one to solve for, no question, but there is a lot of chicken-egg there as well.
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Every other country is living with the same rules as Israel - is Israel the only country you feel this way about? Israel is not segregated, a significant portion of their country is not Jewish. And you are blaming the girl in the pretty dress here, zionism (the idea that jews should have a state) is not the cause, Islamic extremism is the cause. From Iran to the proxies, they make it very clear who they want destroyed. But if you aren't paying attention, there is the same wave of destruction across north Africa and more and more territory is being taken over.
The solution lies in Iran, not Israel, and the sooner the entire world rejects what Iran wants to deliver, the sooner we can find peace.