[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by blankall

They are actually quite different. The ultimate goal of the gaza and west bank is an autonomous palestinian state. Also killing is not indiscriminate. You may want to think differently, but Israel is attacked everyday. ALL attacks are directed at militants. Yes there are lots of civilian casaulties, but that is because militatnts hide w/out uniforms in civilian areas.

Can we please dispense with the cognitive dissonance and rhetoric? The ultimate goal (or final solution…)of Gaza and the West Bank is not an autonomous Palestinian state, much like the ultimate goal of the Golan Heights isn’t an autonomous Golan or Druze state. Were that the case from the perspective of Israel, ‘Palestine’ would already be a state. If you don’t believe me that Israel has wanted no part of a Palestinian state, read the reports of what Barak offered Arafat at Camp David. According to the popular account, Barak offered Arafat a very sweet offer, but that Arafat refused, the reasons given vary. Of course, there isn’t much in the way of documentation about what each side offered (neither seemingly willing to put a proposal down on paper), but if what Barak offered Arafat was indeed what he claims, why wouldn’t Israel have accepted the Saudi proposal? The Saudi proposal, which went even further than the alleged Israeli proposal at Camp David, was accepted by the PA and the entire Arab League. If Israel was indeed such an altruistic state, wanting nothing but a separate and autonomous Palestinian state to co-exist with in peace, you’d think they would jump at the chance to accept a deal that didn’t even include the right of return.

There are also other opinions of the Camp David talks:

Not surprisingly, the Israeli plan alone was on the negotiating table at Camp David in the summer of 2000. Endorsed by the Americans, it offered withdrawal from most of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, leaving about 15 per cent of original Palestine for the Palestinians, in the form of discrete cantons bisected by highways, settlements, army camps and walls. No capital in Jerusalem, no solution to the refugee problem and total abuse of the concept of statehood and independence. Even the fragile Arafat, who had hitherto seemed to be happy with the Salata (the perks of power), having never exercised Sulta (actual power), could not sign a document that made a mockery of every Palestinian demand. He was immediately depicted as a warmonger.

As for the indiscriminant killing…

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Also comparing israel's actions to the nazi's (which you have done w/ the reference to Germany's ghettos) is totally out of line. If Israel's actions were in anyway comparable there would be no problem since there would be no palestinians.

I never said they were committing a holocaust. If you can’t see any parallels between Israel building massive walls separating Palestinians from encroaching, illegal, Israeli settlements, causing the disruption of any kind of economy resulting in massive malnutrition, and Warsaw ghettoization, you should re-examine your historical perspective. Lebensraum could very accurately be described by Israeli settlement building and further hemming in of Palestinians. Those aren’t the only parallels to be drawn either. There are ‘Jews Only’ roads to scenes like this.