[jammies]

Originally Posted by J pold

... (Guess what I think your post is ignorant and pessimistic you think its right…but BOTH of our opinions are equal you can’t tell someone that your opinion is better or more valid its there opinion if they want to have it so be it)

You mistake possible for probable - just because an opinion is POSSIBLY correct, doesn't mean it is equal to an opinion that is PROBABLY correct, so there are better and more valid opinions for certain subjects - not ALL subjects, as some things are entirely subjective (for example, if I don't like the taste of pickles, that is entirely subjective and it isn't possible to be right or wrong, this is an opinion that simply *is*)

To illustrate, it is *possible* that little elves run my messages down the wires to calgarypuck, I mean, you can't PROVE it doesn't happen, can you? All this talk of electrons and photons might be a big hoax - have you ever actually SEEN an electron? No? Well, there is exactly just as much evidence for those little internet elves (ie - none) as there is for a subject such as, oh, say, astrology - however, just because many people believe in the latter and not the former, somehow I should respect this opinion? No, I'll go with what is likely true as opposed to what is certainly fantasy, every time.

Originally Posted by J pold

Astrology cannot explain the future, past, or present(Got some proof for this? I don’t believe in horoscopes or much astrology for that matter but some people do…what does it matter to you, does it have any bearing on your life if a culture wants to use the stars explain the un-known just because you don’t believe doesn’t make it wrong)

Astrology is based on the Ptolemaic theory of the planets, which puts earth at the centre of the universe, with all the planets, Sun, and Moon in orbit around it. Celestial objects supposedly move thru the different houses of the zodiac (which radiate out from the stationary earth), and these movements then supposedly influence events and people. As we now know (not opinion, but observed fact), the earth is not at the centre of the universe, it moves around the Sun and not vice-versa, and thus the entire basis for astrology is false. It's like claiming all cheese is based on asteroids fallen down from the Moon, when, as we are now aware, the moon is unfortunately not made of cheese.

Further, astrologists have been set up in experiments where they are given the date, time, and place of a person's birth, and asked to forecast their personalities, lives, and future. Uniformly, they do no better than random grad students asked to do the same thing with absolutely no knowledge of astrology. This is compelling evidence in the mind of any rational person that astrology is bunk, and anyone who believes it it, believes in what is demonstrably false.

As far as what harm does such belief do, it does plenty. I know people (invariably, for whatever reason, women) who actually base life-changing decisions on what some mumbo-jumbo merchant tells them is the right thing to do. I don't think that is right, and I think that is plenty harmful enough to make me want to speak up about how astrology is utter, complete, non-debatable crap.

Originally Posted by J pold

Your personal experience with the paranormal does not prove it exists any more than my experiences with LSD proved that colors can be tasted (again if people want to believe in the paranormal because of there own personal experience let them…just because it hasn’t happened to you doesn’t give you the right to tell them that they are wrong or that it doesn’t exist)

Where am I telling them they are wrong? I am saying that such experiences aren't proof of anything. Maybe there are ghosts - I doubt it, but whenever the argument comes up, saying "I saw a ghost, so they must exist" doesn't act as some magic end to the issue, as people seem to think. I've experienced many things, usually under (but not always) the influence of psychoactive drugs, and what it has taught me is that you cannot trust what you THINK you have experienced, unless there is some evidence outside your mind that exists to corroborate your story.

Originally Posted by J pold

; your child is probably not especially clever nor beautiful (other than in the way that all children are)(God forbid a parent think there young child is beautiful or smart…more parents should take your outlook on life…yeah my child is pretty ugly and stupid);

Did you miss the part where I said *all* children are clever and beautiful? The key word is ESPECIALLY, I loathe parents whose child can do no wrong, who are blind to his/her flaws and who think every mundane task their child accomplishes deserves to be trumpeted to the heavens. These are the parents whose children grow up stupid, vain and self-centred, and at the root of it lies an inability to confront the reality that little Johnny or Joanie isn't the absolute pinnacle of humanity's efforts on this world so far.

Originally Posted by J pold

you do look rather fat in those jeans; chances are pretty good that you aren't a particularly good driver nor are you as attractive to the opposite sex as you think you are.(if you want to go around thinking you’re a poor driver and unattractive that’s fine, but don’t tell me I am I tend to believe in self confidence)

There's nothing wrong with self-confidence, I am talking about self-delusion. Isn't it amazing how every time you talk about bad drivers, every one in the conversation happens to know ABOUT a bad driver, or has recently had an experience WITH a bad driver, but no one ever believes THEY might be a bad driver? Is there some secret city, maybe underneath the ground, where all the bad drivers go after sundown to drink and swap stories about how they spent all day cutting people off, driving slow in the fast lane and fast in the slow lane, blowing thru stop signs and swerving to hit kitties and puppies while laughing like Snidely Whiplash?

As far as sex appeal goes, I am talking about those guys and girls who so obviously feel they are absolutely the king dong or the supremo. News flash - the world is full of attractive people, there are literally thousands and thousands of people right here in your city that are as attractive as you are, or better, so get over yourself already.

Originally Posted by J pold

if you ask an expert for an informed opinion and you don't agree with it, you are most likely wrong and he or she is right, especially when your idea is "common sense" and theirs isn't(you can’t tell someone there opinion is wrong even if your are expert…if your tell someone that 2+2=4 even though most would agree that you are 100% correct if they think 2+2=5 than that is there opinion its not right and its not wrong its just there opinion you can disagree like most would but if they believe its right than that is there opinion)

You can't be serious, can you? Mathematics is not a matter of opinion, and 2+2=4 is provable without using mathematics anyway - if you have 2 dead monkeys, and I give you 2 more dead monkeys, you will never ever have 5 dead monkeys unless you already had one stashed in the freezer. It is like saying Martin Luther King's first name is spelled Dudley - it is a statement that carries its own falsehood nestled inside.

Mathematics is a created abstraction with rules about what is and isn't true within its various systems, so you CAN prove whether something is true or not inside of it, and there can be no debate, especially not "debate by fiat" where I simply say something is so because I believe it. (Leaving aside unprovable theorems within mathematical systems, which don't apply in this case as 2+2=4 is not a theorem, but a function). You must have picked the absolute worst example I've ever seen for this debate, as mathematics is all ABOUT proving things within a system, as no other discipline, even science, is as strongly. The only way you can make 2+2=5 is by changing what +, 2, =, or 5 means, which is fine, but again that doesn't make it a matter of OPINION but of changing the rules of your mathematics.

Originally Posted by J pold

meat is not murder unless you're a cannibal(now see if you can grasp this in your opinion its not murder, I cannot tell your opinion is wrong because its your opinion…do I disagree? Absolutely but that is your opinion)

Murder is the killing of a human being. Meat animals are not human (unless you are Sawney Bean), therefore meat is not murder. "Fur is murder" is another one that annoys the hell out of me - it might be wrong to kill animals just for their fur, and I do think this is mostly correct, but hyperbole is not going to impress anyone but the weak-minded.