Quote:
Originally Posted by Sliver
Question why I only picked non-physical sports? What's there to question? I picked those because women get creamed by men in physical ones 
Yes, the focus on trans women in sports is microscopically small, we agree. That's why liberal-minded people are doing a disservice to the more important issues by pretending this isn't ridiculous to pretend there isn't an advantage for trans women. There just is.
And if we can't take drugs to improve our physicality, then I'm not sure de-tuning our bodies with hormones is any better. You can't de-tune an athletic man down to the maximum of a cis woman. Maybe performance-altering drugs in sports are just a don't go there?
To me this isn't about women in sports. I dgaf about any sports. I just like honesty and I think the arguments pretending trans women don't have an advantage in sports are ridiculous and a distraction. I don't like that the right wing is playing the left for fools by baiting them into defending an untenable position and the left is falling for it.
And yeah, we're tall. We'll never be horse jockeys. Not everyone can do everything. Sometimes if you were born a man you can't compete against women in weight lifting. I'm okay with that and I don't think it's anti-anything to hold that opinion. |
I’m a little disappointed that you don’t seem to actually be open to listening to and thinking about the issue, so I don’t see much value in continuing the conversation with you. Feel free to call me a dishonest, ridiculous fool all you want, I guess, but I don’t think advocating for specific, science-based approaches to fairness in sports instead of blanket bans on trans people is any of those things.
Limits on testosterone levels, which has a direct correlation with the physical advantages that men may have over women in certain sports, is an approach that actually attempts to draw a line on what is fair. Medical experts recognize that women (who were born women) that have exceedingly high testosterone levels may have the same physical advantages over women that fall in the normal range as men with average testosterone levels do. Setting a limit on those levels for elite competition excludes some trans women, sure, but it also excludes some cis women. If you want to talk about fair, that’s the kind of conversation you have. If you want to exclude trans women solely on the basis of them having transitioned and nothing else, then you’re not talking about “fair” or “honesty,” you’re taking an anti-trans position.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden
I don't think that women are being bigots if they dont want to play against non gender conforming athletes or trans people. Thats a big if, because maybe they dont care. But if they do care, then they should be protected from criticism.
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If women don’t want to compete against trans people then we should absolutely be critical of that desire.
The idea that both trans men and trans women, and those who are non gender conforming should be excluded based solely on those factors and not on any biological, chemical, or physical basis is ridiculous.