Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken
Ah, the ethnocentric armchair historian arises into the debate.
'Infinately better off'? I wish people were as shocked by this post as they were by my (hoped) obvious sarcasm. This is so catagorically false I really had to reread it to make sure I wasn't getting caught in my own sarcasm trap. But, as I now believe this to be a serious post, let me offer a rebuttal.
Your assertion that Natives are in 'infinately' better condition than they were 500 years ago can be interpreted on many levels. The tone of this post reflects primarily the perceived advantages of bringing natives from the 'stone age' to the 'iron age' as another poster so eloquently put it. What are the perceived advantages of such upward mobility of civliziation? Do they attain new economic advantages, types of education and strong governmental bodies founded on the begining ideals of democracy?
If that was the case, why did so many Europeans flee European colonies to join the neighbouring tribes? This isn't one or two people we're talking about here, we're talking thousands of settlers in a short period of time preceding the start of the American Indian Wars. In the words of Benjamin Franklin (who would later use the Iroquois Five Nations as the basis for a proposal for a Union, which became the America we know today), "No European who has tasted Savage Life can afterwards bear to live in our societies." 'Indianization' was so tempting, that various european societies made it punishable by death, including Pilgrim settlements.
Natives societies were so advanced, that captured tales of women tell of the envy for the equality native women enjoyed in their societies. Testimonials of Explorers (and the european societies that interacted with them for hundreds of years) tell of the non-hierarchical structure of native society. Though there were natives tribes where chiefdom was largely hereditary, the meritocracy and egalitarianism of their societies was far more advanced than European societies of the day, and one could argue with plenty of amunition, that they were more meritocratic and egalitarian than our present north american society. It was in the 1740s that the Iroquois nation even suggested to these selfish, bitter colonies to form a union so that trade and interaction would be easier. Congress even wrote, in a letter to the, at this point, Six nations, that, "The Six Nations are a wise people,"..."Let us harken to their council and teach our children to follow it."
I don't think it's even worth explaining the declining state of the health of natives physically or emotionally. Prior to European contact, North American natives were the healthiest humans had ever been up to that point, and the healthiest they've been since. That's not something that is up for debate. You're clearly wrong, and I really wish you would read up on north american native history. Read some Ward Churchill.
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Ahh the arrogant prick who argues points that were never made so that he can feel like he is winning a debate has something to say. Many European settlers moved to native colonies and admired certain things about them? I don't care. I didn't compare those 2 societies. I said the natives are better off now than they were then. But just so you feel like you didn't waste you energy typing that stuff, I will respond. Obviously there were things the natives admired about European colonies, or else they woudln't have traded for European goods.
I'm sorry I said infinately though. I mean they are better off by a factor or 14.87. I'm sure you can interpret this on many levels, but why don't you consider it in terms of the things that you use in your daily life that make it easier.
Do you have a car? Do you take the bus? Have you ever flown anywhere? Do you buy your food from a grocery store? Are you using a computer? Is your home heated? Do you utilize electricity? Do you have access to hospitals? Did you go to grade school? University? Do you have running water? Can you communicate with people all over the world in real time? Must I continue?
Does anything mentioned above make your life easier?
If they were the healthiest people ever, why do they live longer now? Last I checked, death was the ultimate indicator of lack of health. It certianly isn't worth explaining the state of health of natives emotionally or physically, because that is their own fault. Many native people are perfectly healthy, some are not. Most of the time it's their own choices they've made one way or another. Live a healthy lifestyle or don't. Nobody forces the ones who eat right and excersise to do so, and nobody forces the ones who eat like crap, drink, huff gasoline and destroy their bodies either.