[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by cannon7

You've been straw maning this entire thread. Rich that you now call me out for it.

Bull.

Straw man. Already said I'd keep a generational talent like Iginla.

No doubt you'd try. Can't imagine why he would stay with a team that was guaranteed never to win anything.

One? You're eating the straw now. An NHL franchise can have 50 players under contract and 90 players on their reserve list. What the hell are you talking about?

I didn't expect you to understand. You can't do math.

If you are dumping all your players at age 27, and you get 2.5 NHL-capable players per year, you need EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM on your roster from ages 18 to 27. That means NONE of them get any development time AT ALL. The only alternative is to deliberately put players on your roster who are not good enough for the NHL, which guarantees that your team will suck.

Yeah, if you are too stupid to figure out you can have up to 90 players in your system. Then sure.

To get 90 players in your system, all under 27, you would need 10 draft picks every single year. Good luck with that.

We appear to have different definitions for "NHL calibre".

Yes. I have a definition, and you have hot air.

And I'm saying futures are the way. Especially if your alternative is UFA leftovers.

No, you are saying ALL futures is the ONLY way, and there is no alternative BUT UFA leftovers. Your whole position is idiotic.




Hyperbolic straw man now? You haven't even made a case as to why a roster of predominantly 20-27 year old RFAs is guaranteed to lose. Just asserting something over and over does not make it so.

See? Just asserting the same thing, over and over. No actual basis for this claim. Just a broken record.

You're the ONLY one asserting that a team with no players over 27 can make the playoffs. Show me where it has EVER been done.

Your claim was that sports wasn't a math problem. And it absolutely is a numbers game. To pretend otherwise is naive.

Hockey players aren't numbers. They are human beings. They have free will. They are not compelled to go along with your plan. Real things happen in reality that are not predicted by your model (or anyone's model). You don't allow for any of that.

This isn't a video game.

There it is again. Starting to think you don't actually have an argument at all? Just "Won't work. You'll just lose."

Teams that go through rebuilds always lose until they build something up. That's the history of the sport. You are saying a team should ALWAYS be rebuilding, and that as soon as it has anything built up, it should burn it to the ground for more futures.

There is a REASON why nobody ever ran their hockey team that way, and it is not because every NHL manager in history is an idiot and you're a genius.

Ah, I see you haven't quoted where I said you can't trade or sign players. So more straw men?

You were the one who said, and I repeat, that ALL your players would be developed together. That means no trades. That means no signings.

What I did say is that if your focus is on scouting and developing players instead of trying to acquire them through free agency then the inevitable side effect of this is that most of your NHL roster will have come up through the same system. This seems obvious? Guess not to some.

What you did say is that you want to get rid of every player at 27. That means you are never signing free agents EXCEPT for undrafted prospects (for which you are competing with all the other teams), because actual NHL players don't reach free agency until they're too old for your stupid rule.

You call it dumping. I call it selling high. I hope you're not managing your own stock portfolio with this attitude...

The purpose of a stock portfolio is to make money. The purpose of a hockey team is not to accumulate young players, it is TO WIN HOCKEY GAMES. You have completely lost sight of this.

And again.

The onus is on you to demonstrate that a team built your way WON'T lose, when the entire history of the sport shows otherwise.

You clearly aren't reading any of my posts.

Right, that's why I am responding to every bloody one of them line by line. Liar.

Straw man, man. I never said all teams should be managed this way.

If no other way makes sense, then why wouldn't they be? If your strategy is so brilliant, everyone will adopt it – and then it will stop working, because every team can't be trading all its 27-year-olds for futures when there are no buyers.

But small market teams like the Flames need to fundamentally rethink how they run their teams if they want any hope of competing with the big market clubs.

By being nothing ever again but glorified AHL teams that develop talent for the big markets to use? How is that competing? IT ISN'T.

It's supply and demand. If you have a disproportionate amount of quality young talent that means there's a shortage of supply somewhere else. There will be demand for such talent and as such you will be at an advantage and can maximize the return. You then take these maximized returns and reinvest them into staking a disproportionate claim on future talent (having more draft picks). Rinse and repeat. The result will compound if your scouting/development teams perform.

And then all you ever have is futures.

Strapped doesn't mean over. So no idea what you're on about here.

If being over the cap doesn't make you cap-strapped, I don't know what does. But we already knew you don't grasp math.

And how do you propose a small market team like the Flames get there? I'll wait.

Draft, develop, and DON'T GET RID OF ALL YOUR GOOD PLAYERS AS SOON AS THEY'RE IN THEIR PRIME. Keep them to win some goddamn hockey games!

And if you are using up all 90 spots on your player reserve list does your math still check out?

If you are getting rid of every player that turns 27, you never will fill up your reserve list, so it's a moot point.

If only those were the conditions...

They were the precise conditions you stated.

Am growing tired of you will fully misrepresenting my position, so will stop here.

Good!

I'm sure you have much better ideas on how the Flames should be managed. You won't express any of them. But I'm sure they're there in that noggin of yours.

It's not my job to manage the Flames. But I can tell that your ideas are such awful crap that they wouldn't even flush without clogging the pipes.