Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe
Is Treliving an idiotic buffoon, or was he a genius who had unforeseen and unfortunate luck?
Truth is most likely in the middle.
I see people building up stories around each move that he made. If you liked him, you are probably building a positive spin with every move. If you disliked him, you are doing the opposite.
Sometimes it is just easier to take a step back and look at the entire picture. When Treliving was hired, what was his priority? It wasn't to trade player A, waive player B, and draft player C. That's looking too closely. Take a step back, and you realize that Treliving was hired to build a contender. This team was in a rebuild, he was hired, and the goal was to become a contender. That's why this team entered into a rebuild - it became impossible to win a cup (or even just win many games) with the team as constructed.
In 9 full seasons, did he do that? Let's look at the successes:
2 - that's the number of playoff rounds won in 9 years
2 - that's the total number of games that were won in the 2nd rounds
5 - number of seasons out of 9 that the Flames made the playoffs
2 - number of consecutive seasons that the Flames made the playoffs in his tenure
0 - never made it to the third round
0 - never made it to the finals
0 - number of cups won
Ok, the last 3 numbers were for emphasis. If the goal was to build a contender, then there isn't much of an argument to be had in Treliving accomplishing the goal that he was hired to do. Blame it on bad luck or bad decisions. Don't blame it on a bad location - other Canadian teams made it to the finals during his tenure, and others to the third round.
The 'consistent' number also speaks volumes for me. If you are building a contender, one of the steps in that direction is to consistently make the playoffs, right? A good example is Colorado - consistent playoff team from 2018 through last year, winning the cup in 2022.
The argument that can be made is that the Flames looked like Contenders in 2022 with Darryl Sutter as coach, and were just as impressive in 2019 being the western conference champs and having the 2nd best overall record in the NHL. However, that's regular season, and while that's fun, it doesn't mean too much. I am sure the San Jose Sharks would have loved to exchange 5 elite regular seasons for just one single cup.
Did Treliving make moves that I agree with? Absolutely he did. Furthermore, he made moves that I agreed with that worked, he made moves that I agreed with that didn't work. He also made moves that I disagreed with that worked, and moves that I disagreed with that didn't work. It doesn't matter what I agree with or not - I am not the GM. I don't have a bunch of advisors, scouts, assistant GMs, advanced in-house metrics, an analytics team, etc., to help base my own decisions on. He needed to be better than me, or anyone else reading this. It does not matter if you agreed with what he did or you didn't, and what each individual outcome per every decision was. All that matters was success in the playoffs.
He was hired to build a contender, right? So step back and answer these questions:
1) Did this team win a cup? Did it at least contend for the cup?
2) Did this team get close? Go on a playoff run (achieve 3rd round)?
3) Was this team at least a consistent playoff team?
I answered no to these 3 questions, and I that's why I was relived when it was announced that Treliving left the organization. He didn't accomplish what he was hired to do, and at the time I believe he was the 4th longest tenured GM in the league. He had plenty of time.
Now, where are the Flames trending? Did he step away even though this team was on the cusp of winning it? No, the Flames have had to enter a 'retool' - whatever that looks like, and for however long it lasts.
Finally, did he leave the team in a better spot or a worse spot than when he first took over?
I would argue worse. The Flames had some very good pieces in the organization when he took over - Backlund, Gaudreau, Giordano, Ferland, Monahan, Bennett, Brodie... that's a really good nucleus to build around. How many bad contracts were on the team? Zero. There were no long-term big money deals on the books when he took over. Now I look at the team. Certainly there are good pieces - Zary, Pospisil, Coronato, Hanifin, Andersson, Weegar... but there doesn't seem to be any high-end talent to build around, and there are some long-term contracts on the books. I would argue that it looks worse now considering the pipeline of talent, and the contracts are worse.
No, he wasn't an idiot. We wasn't incompetent, or embarrassing, and he didn't plunge the Flames into some abyss that will take a decade to get out of. He is none of the things that people who vehemently dislike him seem to intent on convincing everyone else about. However, I don't think that he was necessarily a good GM either. Flames never got any closer to winning the cup in his 8th year than they were in his 1st year, and the wheels fell off last season. Flames are certainly in a worse spot right now than they were when he first took over, and i really don't see an argument against that, though I am open to one.
I think I would rather talk about Conroy, and why I feel confident about him being the GM of this team, and how well I think he did on this Lindholm trade. That's the more important conversation to be had. As for Treliving, I don't wish him bad luck, though I certainly hope the Leafs never achieve any success, and it's because I hate the Leafs. If Treliving trades with Conroy, I hope he massively loses every deal. I don't wish him to lose his job, I don't wish upon him some horrible outcome. I don't really care one way or the other with how much success he has with whatever team he manages. Maybe one day I will look at him like I did with David Poile when he retired. For now, all I wish is for Conroy to take this team where Treliving couldn't, and that's the Stanley Cup Final one day.
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