Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community - View Single Post - [Trade] Elias Lindholm to VAN for Kuzmenko, Brzustewicz, Jurmo, 2024 1st, cond 2024 4th

Calgary4LIfe · 01-31-2024, 10:38 PM

Craig Conroy strikes again!

So much for "the naive rookie GM". Flames are going the rebuild route, and i love it.

What did I want from a Lindholm trade? A 1st, a good prospect, and a player for cap purposes. Conroy made sure that cap player has a high ceiling (great candidate for a reclamation project), the prospect has a higher ceiling than I thought he would be able to get, and the 1st is a 1st of course. Then he gets another pretty good prospect, and a conditional 4th (can become a 3rd)?

Not every pick works out. Not every prospect works out. Some are going to look great, and then fizzle out. Some picks never work from the beginning. A number of them end up as NHL'ers, and are solid depth. I am not looking for depth. I am looking for franchise-level players, so the more at bats you get, the more chances you get to hit a home run.

Brzustewicz's comparable sure sounds a lot like Morin - a prospect I am very high on. Sounds a lot like a more offensive Morin, but not quite as nasty, though he engages physically. Maybe he pans out, maybe he doesn't. However, he is having quite the season this year, so it sounds like a great 'at bat' at getting a future franchise piece.

Jurmo sounds like a guy with a lower ceiling, but still a legitimately solid prospect with a fairly high floor. He (along with Brzustewicz) also fill 2nd biggest hole in the Flames prospects (and soon, the entire organization) - lack of defencemen. Getting two promising prospects is really reassuring in that regard.

1st round pick - heck, who knows how good it can be?

4th(3rd) round pick? Might be nobody. Might be the next Gaudreau, or Brodie.

Kuzmenko - I like him. He has a great shot, and he has a mind for the offensive side of the game. Sounds like he had issues with the new system and ended up clashing a little there, and that's fine. I look at the work that Huska has done so far with Sharangovich and even Huberdeau now, and it gives me hope that he finds a way to rebound. If he doesn't, well, that's a cost of doing business. If he does rebound, chances are he probably gets moved next season as another part of the rebuild, and if he rebounds here, he may very well return another huge piece - this is an underrated part of the trade.

Also, my thoughts on his refusal to wear the pride jersey - sure, you don't want to see it. However, there is a difference from not wanting to wear it if you are a Russian player coming from Russia, vs some dude who grew up here. In Russia, you are attacked for being gay. It is not socially acceptable. Sometimes you have to give these guys the space to adjust to differing values. Also, maybe it isn't that he doesn't want to support LGBTQ values, but he is scared to do so. Here, who is going to say or do anything against you? In Russia, where he has family, maybe he does. Maybe he is gay himself, and definitely wants to make sure nobody outs him in Russia? There could be so many reasons. I am not saying that your opinion of him is necessarily wrong - but it could be wrong or at least, misguided. One last counter-argument: The best way to get rid of bigotry and racism, is for the other side to embrace the bigot or racist person. Worst case scenario is that he doesn't like the LGBTQ community - but growing up in Russia, how many has he ever met? Probably zero? Living here, he gets to meet more, and maybe he will even become friends with some - that would never happen in Russia. It wasn't so very long ago that anyone who wasn't heterosexual was labled as a 'deviant' here in North America. Give people from outside more liberal and progressive nations an olive branch, rather than a slap on the face, and I bet it will be easier for them to realize that they have a lot more in common with these 'deviants' than they realize.

Who is the loser in the trade? I think Vancouver makes out well at the same time. They held onto their top-end prospects, and it was a shame that Conroy couldn't pry one of them out. Had Lindholm not gone so cold, he probably could have. We all know that Lindholm can put up elite numbers if he plays with elite talent, and I am sure he will see a nice rebound in points. Good for him. He gets his chance at a bigger payday again, but I would be surprised if it is as high as the original Flames' (rumoured) offer.

The biggest loser in all of this is... Markstrom. He has done everything to keep this team as a competitor. He is good friends with Lindholm, and Lindholm was the top centre on the team. It must be deflating for him, probably for Backlund who just re-signed here, and probably deflating for everyone else in the room. It is what it is, however. Had Lindholm played better in the last 2 seasons, Flames might have been a playoff team still. Certainly not all on him, but the point stands.

Finally, one way to look at having multiple picks that may not get thought of enough. Think back to the Gaudreau draft. Flames had two second round picks. Button had Gaudreau on a 'special list' alongside Kucherov. He decided to draft Wotherspoon with that second, second round pick, and immediately after Kucherov was taken. I imagine Button was angry with himself, especially with hindsight. He made sure that Calgary drafted Gaudreau with their next pick (missing a 3rd round pick, so he had to sit through waiting for the 4th round, probably fuming and on pins and needles for Gaudreau). Two lessons from that: Firstly is that there is no such thing as too many picks. Secondly, is that you can find franchise-altering players well beyond the first round. Thirdly, is that he probably has learned his lesson and next time he will probably switch the order! Imagine getting Kucherov AND Gaudreau in the same draft. Who knows what happens with time, and how the Flames rise and fall over the years, but maybe it would have led them to a Stanley Cup in one of the last 10 years? Panarin would probably had the Flames higher than just in the final four of his decision - maybe he picks Calgary instead of Chicago, and the Flames would have won a cup?

I wrote a number of paragraphs on this subject, but this post is long enough. Just keep collecting picks Conroy! Love it! Can't wait to see what else transpires, and the draft is going to be damn exciting.

I was also going to end on a joke saying: "I can't believe Conroy didn't do full retention on Lindholm to maximize assets!" - but someone did actually complain about it. Surprised me. This was a great trade. No need for retention when taking Kuzmenko anyway (who, if he rights himself, could be traded for way more than what the retention would have bought anyway)

Flames have 3 retention spots, and I hope they use those spots shrewdly. They may not have to retain on any player they trade out, but they can also accumulate assets by acting as the middleman. Conroy specifically brought this up with the Zadorov trade. Toronto didn't get him because the assets offered for the retention wasn't good enough. I believe Conroy, and if there is a deal to be made either by retaining on players, or acting as the middleman between two other teams that make sense for the Flames, he has the green light to do it.

Exciting times ahead!

Something to look forward to next time the Flames play is watching the new guy. Gives us something to look forward to in the short term, so it works out nicely.

01-31-2024, 10:38 PM	#995
Calgary4LIfe Franchise Player Join Date: Jun 2010 Exp:	Craig Conroy strikes again! So much for "the naive rookie GM". Flames are going the rebuild route, and i love it. What did I want from a Lindholm trade? A 1st, a good prospect, and a player for cap purposes. Conroy made sure that cap player has a high ceiling (great candidate for a reclamation project), the prospect has a higher ceiling than I thought he would be able to get, and the 1st is a 1st of course. Then he gets another pretty good prospect, and a conditional 4th (can become a 3rd)? Not every pick works out. Not every prospect works out. Some are going to look great, and then fizzle out. Some picks never work from the beginning. A number of them end up as NHL'ers, and are solid depth. I am not looking for depth. I am looking for franchise-level players, so the more at bats you get, the more chances you get to hit a home run. Brzustewicz's comparable sure sounds a lot like Morin - a prospect I am very high on. Sounds a lot like a more offensive Morin, but not quite as nasty, though he engages physically. Maybe he pans out, maybe he doesn't. However, he is having quite the season this year, so it sounds like a great 'at bat' at getting a future franchise piece. Jurmo sounds like a guy with a lower ceiling, but still a legitimately solid prospect with a fairly high floor. He (along with Brzustewicz) also fill 2nd biggest hole in the Flames prospects (and soon, the entire organization) - lack of defencemen. Getting two promising prospects is really reassuring in that regard. 1st round pick - heck, who knows how good it can be? 4th(3rd) round pick? Might be nobody. Might be the next Gaudreau, or Brodie. Kuzmenko - I like him. He has a great shot, and he has a mind for the offensive side of the game. Sounds like he had issues with the new system and ended up clashing a little there, and that's fine. I look at the work that Huska has done so far with Sharangovich and even Huberdeau now, and it gives me hope that he finds a way to rebound. If he doesn't, well, that's a cost of doing business. If he does rebound, chances are he probably gets moved next season as another part of the rebuild, and if he rebounds here, he may very well return another huge piece - this is an underrated part of the trade. Also, my thoughts on his refusal to wear the pride jersey - sure, you don't want to see it. However, there is a difference from not wanting to wear it if you are a Russian player coming from Russia, vs some dude who grew up here. In Russia, you are attacked for being gay. It is not socially acceptable. Sometimes you have to give these guys the space to adjust to differing values. Also, maybe it isn't that he doesn't want to support LGBTQ values, but he is scared to do so. Here, who is going to say or do anything against you? In Russia, where he has family, maybe he does. Maybe he is gay himself, and definitely wants to make sure nobody outs him in Russia? There could be so many reasons. I am not saying that your opinion of him is necessarily wrong - but it could be wrong or at least, misguided. One last counter-argument: The best way to get rid of bigotry and racism, is for the other side to embrace the bigot or racist person. Worst case scenario is that he doesn't like the LGBTQ community - but growing up in Russia, how many has he ever met? Probably zero? Living here, he gets to meet more, and maybe he will even become friends with some - that would never happen in Russia. It wasn't so very long ago that anyone who wasn't heterosexual was labled as a 'deviant' here in North America. Give people from outside more liberal and progressive nations an olive branch, rather than a slap on the face, and I bet it will be easier for them to realize that they have a lot more in common with these 'deviants' than they realize. Who is the loser in the trade? I think Vancouver makes out well at the same time. They held onto their top-end prospects, and it was a shame that Conroy couldn't pry one of them out. Had Lindholm not gone so cold, he probably could have. We all know that Lindholm can put up elite numbers if he plays with elite talent, and I am sure he will see a nice rebound in points. Good for him. He gets his chance at a bigger payday again, but I would be surprised if it is as high as the original Flames' (rumoured) offer. The biggest loser in all of this is... Markstrom. He has done everything to keep this team as a competitor. He is good friends with Lindholm, and Lindholm was the top centre on the team. It must be deflating for him, probably for Backlund who just re-signed here, and probably deflating for everyone else in the room. It is what it is, however. Had Lindholm played better in the last 2 seasons, Flames might have been a playoff team still. Certainly not all on him, but the point stands. Finally, one way to look at having multiple picks that may not get thought of enough. Think back to the Gaudreau draft. Flames had two second round picks. Button had Gaudreau on a 'special list' alongside Kucherov. He decided to draft Wotherspoon with that second, second round pick, and immediately after Kucherov was taken. I imagine Button was angry with himself, especially with hindsight. He made sure that Calgary drafted Gaudreau with their next pick (missing a 3rd round pick, so he had to sit through waiting for the 4th round, probably fuming and on pins and needles for Gaudreau). Two lessons from that: Firstly is that there is no such thing as too many picks. Secondly, is that you can find franchise-altering players well beyond the first round. Thirdly, is that he probably has learned his lesson and next time he will probably switch the order! Imagine getting Kucherov AND Gaudreau in the same draft. Who knows what happens with time, and how the Flames rise and fall over the years, but maybe it would have led them to a Stanley Cup in one of the last 10 years? Panarin would probably had the Flames higher than just in the final four of his decision - maybe he picks Calgary instead of Chicago, and the Flames would have won a cup? I wrote a number of paragraphs on this subject, but this post is long enough. Just keep collecting picks Conroy! Love it! Can't wait to see what else transpires, and the draft is going to be damn exciting. I was also going to end on a joke saying: "I can't believe Conroy didn't do full retention on Lindholm to maximize assets!" - but someone did actually complain about it. Surprised me. This was a great trade. No need for retention when taking Kuzmenko anyway (who, if he rights himself, could be traded for way more than what the retention would have bought anyway) Flames have 3 retention spots, and I hope they use those spots shrewdly. They may not have to retain on any player they trade out, but they can also accumulate assets by acting as the middleman. Conroy specifically brought this up with the Zadorov trade. Toronto didn't get him because the assets offered for the retention wasn't good enough. I believe Conroy, and if there is a deal to be made either by retaining on players, or acting as the middleman between two other teams that make sense for the Flames, he has the green light to do it. Exciting times ahead! Something to look forward to next time the Flames play is watching the new guy. Gives us something to look forward to in the short term, so it works out nicely.