[Flame Of Liberty]

Pretty important to note that a massive amount of these donations to SE Asia are being coordinated... and donated by 'governmental' institutions.# In fact, I'd suggest governments combined are giving a whole lot more than corporations combined.

Government is not giving its own money, because it has NO its money. All money it has was previously taken from the private sector. In fact, what the government did was to steal the money first and then brag about how it donates its money. That is Robin Hood solidarity.

Again, I don't believe that individual welfare can be ensured by the goodwill of the rich.# In times where individual rights were not entrenched, the elite tended to 'exploit' the hell out of poor, abundant labour pools.# I'd suggest basing social welfare on donations from the rich is no way to assure the well-being of everyone.

You still haven`t explained how can the elites exploit the hell out of poor.

What do you mean by well being of everyone? Some kind of social egalitarianism? First, you have to justify that as a desirable outcome, then you have to justify means to achieve this end (which involves violating individual rights) and third you have to prove your means actually CAN achieve this end of social egalitarianims. Can you do that?

This basically sounds like Utopian economics.# People who won't take more than they need, help others for the sake of helping others.# I'm thinking violence is going to overrule sharing in several instances, and that will lead to problems.# Welcome to Thunderdome

Utopian economics? People who won't take more than they need, help others for the sake of helping others? I dont think I follow. Where did I say anything about `taking more than I need` ? That is communist thinking. Certainly not what I was talking about.

Yeah, the handicapped were taken care of all right.# Tossed into institutions and basically jailed until they died.# I'm pretty sure I could point out some instances where the disabled are doing a whole lot better now than they would have in 1800's England.# I skimmed the article.# It also seemed to dwell on philosphical niceties to sharing and equitable distribution, without admitting that the realities of this ideal rely almost solely on good-will.

Equitable distribution? What is that? You are arguing something I never said. Libertarianism is not based on niceties to sharing - if you share and you are being nice then it is your own virtue, nothing more nothing less.

Well, I don't think that I'm giving up, but I doubt either of us will be swayed to the other's point of view. Besides, we're using up board space boring the hell out of everyone

Oh well... But we`re doing our best

I think there was a thread here a month or two ago that mentioned Libertarianism.# I thought somehow Chomsky was a Libertarian, so maybe that's what I've heard.

Let me assure you he is no libertarian, actually he`s on the other side of the spectrum. Also, people like Ann Coulter or O`Reily make the impression they are all there is to "right wing" thinking whereas they are both jokes and not even close to modern antisocialistic thinking. It is only sad people believe they are the only alternatives to the left.

In the end, I'd love for everyone to just start helping everyone else out, so that we didn't need protection of our rights from institutions like governments.# But as long as someone out there is willing to violate your 'Natural Law' of respecting each other's property and liberty, then it won't work.

Utopian.# I love Utopias, but I can't argue in favour of their validity, it just doesn't work like that for us.

If people will have interest in protecting their rights and liberty, it will work.

Government free societies did exist in the past. That is simply a historical fact. So it is not an utopia. Yes, finally the state took over, but thats a whole another debate...