Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist
What gets missed in this conversation is the transportation of hydrogen. If all cars went to hydrogen, firstly we'd need to triple at least the electricity supply that you'd need for EVs. Then you'd have to store it with crazy losses at crazy cold temperatures and crazy high pressure which takes enormous revenue and infrastructure. Then, and this is the crazy part, you'd need to have 4+x as many fuel trucks because even liquid hydrogen is 4x less volumetrically dense than gasoline. It would be $$$$$$$$$$.
As for the efficiency discussion, real numbers make this make more more clear. For hydrogen fuel call vehicles it's really just a regular EV with a battery that uses hydrogen through a fuel cell to charge the battery. So with that context, here's some real numbers you can look up yourself:
Start with 100KWk of electricity from the grid or whatever.
For ev
Lose 1-2% in transmission = 98kwh left
Lose 2-3% in local distribution = 95kwh left
Lose 10-15% in charging = 80kwh left
For HFCV:
Let's assume hydrogen made right at the point of generation so there are zero losses
Lose 20-25% in electrolizing H2O to H2 = 75-80kwh
Lose 5-35% in compressing H2 for storage and transport (plus unknown H2 that must be vented due to building during storage and losses as the molecule is storage) = 49-76kwh left
Lose 7-46% in charging stations due to fueling operations = 26-70kwh left
Then, you'd have to calculate all the extra hydrogen you'd burn shipping the hydrogen around. Trucks would require 4-12x the number of vehicles due to hydrogen being so much less dense than gasoline. It's a non starter.
The only advantage to hydrogen fuel cell vehicles is they're quicker to charge. That's it. Not a single other advantage. Battery capabilities are advancing so quickly that charging times will not be
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And the result of all of the efficiency differences is a massive cost difference for the operational cost of a vehicle. And since these are related to physics fundamental laws, its not something that can be helped with future research and technologies.
Relative to a current ICE engine, operating a Hydrogen powered vehicle will be about twice as expensive.
Operating a battery EV powered at home will be 1/4 to 1/3 as expensive as gas.
Overall, the hydrogen cost for a vehicle to drive a distance is about 4-6 times the cost of electricity to drive a similar vehicle the same distance.
And that's not talking about huge performance differences, complexity differences, etc, that are also fundamental.
The lack of Hydrogen Infastructure isn't a fundamental problem, but there is just no way it can compete with a vehicle that you can simply plug into a standard outlet at home.
The very few places that DID have some hydrogen infrastructure, are already removing it. Hydrogen is DEAD.