Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel...087705?cmp=rss
Sooo....from the river to the sea, then? Just confirming what some of us have known the whole time, Israel wants everything and they'll stop at pretty much nothing to take it all, and justify it with words like "safety".
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Netanyahu and the Likud party have never supported a two state solution and the Likud party has within their own policy a version of river to the sea. The party literally has Zionism as a policy. This should come as no surprise to anyone with historical knowledge.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...he-likud-party
Quote:
The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace.
Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone.
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This is why claims that "river to the sea" has nuances is so abhorrent. It is genocidal in nature no matter who uses it or the person's misguided intent. It has always mean freedom / sovereignty at the expense of another people. Nationalism is not a good thing. Palestine cannot be free without eradication of Israel and the return to a Mandatory Palestine. This means removing a significant number of Jews from Mandatory Palestine borders, and the PLO was founded to eradicate Israel and bring back Mandatory Palestine borders as a Palestine nation (a one state solution). The Likud party wants total sovereignty from the sea to the Jordan, and to this day still are rumours they played part in the assassination of Rabin, at at time we came closest to a two state solution.
This is also why I have issues with posters trying to take a one side approach to the conflict to show constant outrage that neglects or ignores certain aspects of the conflict. Palestinians in large numbers support Hamas, and look the other way to their atrocities including Oct 7. Israelis in large numbers have voted not only for the Likud party but now have a coalition with further extreme right elements and given them a mandate. Both current governments want to eradicate the other and are not looking for a peaceful two state solution where both can co-exist. The PLO was founded via the Arab League to eradicate Israel and return Mandatory Palestine. Even back in 1947-48 where Arab League nations converged to eradicate the newly formed Israel, there were many atrocities and massacres were commited by the Yishuv militia on Arab civilians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killin...victims%20each.
By only focusing on one side to show just how bad that side really is, dismisses half of the geopolitical conflict to fuel a false narrative of the conflict. Palestinians sees their cause as righteous, Israelis sees their cause as righteous.
October 7 was not only supported by Palestinians, but there is evidence supporting Palestinian civilians took part in a 2nd wave of hostage taking (Noah for example).
Meanwhile, I have seen gruesome videos of Israeli soldiers torturing and killing Gaza civilians, laughing at the destruction of homes, kicking and laughing at dead bodies, sniping women with children waving a white flag. Israel soldiers shooting 3 Israeli hostages waving a white flag after being told to step forward shows this as a systemic issue, not an exception. For source, there are several subreddits documenting the war (/r/themajorityreport ). Israel has an overwhelming military advantage and has been overzealously bombing targets way beyond necessary (the insane use of 2000 lbs bombs in densely populated areas) that would make Putin blush. Israel making concerted efforts to minimize casualties is a bit of a false narrative.
While I don't agree with everything stated in this John Oliver dialogue, I do feel it's a must watch especially when talking of Netanyahu's current coalition government. Worth a full watch by everyone.
There is no winner here, and why I don't post here or engage as there are too many posting in bad faith or with dubious intent where a real discussion can occur. I am hoping we see a bit less finger pointing and narrative building that is unnecessary as this conflict will not be resolved on a forum. I do think US needs to give an ultimatum to Israel, especially after the latest response, even if they support the state.