[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I haven't been in here in forever.

Did he misrepresent you? Do you find the death toll of civilians unacceptable? If you do, does that mean you think Israel's tactics are not going far enough to protect civilians?

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

Yes. You can search through the thread if you want.

But that's not really the point. Rather than addressing what I said with honesty he essentially says "I know you are but what am I". There's too much of that here as it drowns out those that want to participate in an honest conversation.

Okay, assignment accepted. I went through the thread and read your posts. A lot were reasonable, but not all IMO. I think this post, in particular, seems to argue that the civilian casualties are not unacceptable. You specifically say if Israel tries to avoid civilian casualties in Gaza it "will lead to the death of Israel civilians and likely the destruction of Israel."

You seem to be in favour of "wiping out Hamas now" as you think it "will probably prevent more civilian casualties in the future," but I'd say your argument falls short of wanting Israel to prevent civilian deaths since you say: "I hope that they somehow manage to get the civilians out of Gaza but that's not an easy task either as Hamas shields themselves with civilians, even if they're refugees." Also, is it just Israeli civilians you are trying to prevent in the future, or all civilian deaths in the area? Because if your goal is to prevent all civilian deaths then Israel is doing a piss-poor job of that.

This really sounds like you don't want civilians to die, but you're fine with it as long as they get Hamas members as well. You are also unwilling to tell us how many civilian deaths are too many.

Am I reading you wrong here? This is your post, FTR:

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

Yes, but it's basically damned if you do, damned if you don't. So, Israel now has the following choice, either:

1-avoid all civilian causalities in Gaza- Unfortunately, Hamas is imbedded in the civilian infrastructure including hospitals and schools and it's part of their strategy to us these people as shields. Some would argue they want to use them as martyrs for their cause. This would likely result in Israel being in a complete defensive position where all they can try to do is repel additional attacks from Hamas. But of course, some of their neighbors, being what they are, will likely take advantage of this passive approach and also attack Israel. This will lead to the death of Israel civilians and likely the destruction of Israel.

2-defend themselves- This will mean Gazan civilian deaths. If they go this route one would hope that they would minimize civilian casualties as much as possible. But how possible is that when their enemy wants their own (and Israelis civilians) to die in this conflict.

On a few occasions, Pepsi has asked what is the right number of civilian casualties. That question is impossible to answer. But I would suggest that wiping out Hamas now will probably prevent more civilian casualties in the future. I hope that they somehow manage to get the civilians out of Gaza but that's not an easy task either as Hamas shields themselves with civilians, even if they're refugees.

Civilians are going to die in large numbers one way or another. It's a sad, somber reality that is inescapable. The same is unfortunately true in any war: bombing of London, bombing of Dresden, Hiroshima/Nagasaki are a few dark examples. War is hell, but make no mistake, this is what Hamas wanted.

Also, when going through your posts I realized you were the guy who edited a post of mine you quoted to change its meaning. That was crazy and demonstrated a total disregard for an honest discussion:

Originally Posted by Sliver

Are you joking around with me? I said they should assassinate the entire Hamas leadership regardless of the country in which those leaders reside. I'm in favour of totally breaking international law and pretending I didn't see jack squat while Mossad agents go around killing Hamas members in any country on the planet.

Turn the other cheek? Fk that. Kill those responsible.

Yeah, go back and read my post. I'm not even going to go on lol.

Edit: Ack, hang tight dude. I don't think my post you quoted says what I said it says. Gimme one sec. Nobody freak out yet.

New edit. JFC, Red Slinger. You literally snipped out the part of my post I thought I had written. WTF, dude?

Please don't do that again.

IDK, after reading your posts I definitely agree you have some nuance in your position and I don't think you're a bloodthirsty kill-all-Palestinians kind of guy; however, you absolutely seem to have given Israel a pass on killing Palestinian civilians to avenge October 7 in a way that seems inconsistent with how you value the lives of Israel civilians. In other words, when I read your posts I think you believe Palestinians civilians are more expendable than Israeli civilians.

I'm also willing to acknowledge your views could have evolved away from that post I quoted, so if you walk that back some I certainly wouldn't hold it against you.