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Originally Posted by Sliver
FWIW, I didn't feel owed any perspective. I was even going to write something to make that clear, but didn't. Now I wish I had.
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You’ve always approached the topic in a genuine way and always shown you actually consider different perspectives, even if you didn’t agree with them, so it’s not something you needed to make clear. You’re appreciated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sliver
Anyway, I don't expect Pepsi or anybody else to need to hold my hand through any of this. I know you have your own life, stresses and struggles to navigate and you are under no obligation whatsoever to steer me through mine; however, I will keep my ears open as to what the LGBTQ community does expect out of a guy like me. Obviously there isn't enough time in the day for me to take up everyone's cause, but I want to be sure I'm at the very least doing better than just "neutral" on these important issues. I didn't vote for UCP because of their stance on this issue and others like it, but that's pretty bare minimum IMO. Only dopes, morons and #######s voted UCP, so it's a pretty low bar to clear and I like to aim a little higher than that.
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Just to be clear, nobody expects anything of you other than treat LGBTQ people like you would treat anyone else and, best I can tell, you do that.
And there’s the whole “if you see something, say something” as being the object of someone else’s hate in public is a very isolating, anxiety-inducing experience, so having another stranger there to speak up with you is great.
But, mostly, it would be nice if people just didn’t see it as some political agenda or thought experiment to engage with every time the topic comes up. Like, here’s some of the types of comments from people who “support” LGBTQ people:
- It’s not your right not to be hated
- Some people suck
- Both sides need to meet in the middle
- Jews are victims of hate crimes too
- We can’t legally restrict speech or someone will do it to you
- You don’t care when people feel uncomfortable on the train, so…
- Life is better every day!
etc.
None of this is helpful. And, not that we’re going to solve anything, but at least there’s a lot of posters who don’t feel the need to dismiss, diminish, or mansplain every concern while engaging in constant whataboutisms or arguing against points that nobody brought up. The fact that there’s any need to clarify that “I understand being hated is not a right” or “I do not wish to limit free speech” when neither of those things were even suggested in the first place shows the intent behind the people arguing against them. Misdirect, misrepresent.
It comes back to a previous post I made. These are all just efforts to make the problems seem abstract and unsolvable. “If you don’t give me a list, there must be no list, I guess we’ll just have to stand against bigotry like we always do.” The thing is, when YOU talk about standing against bigotry, you mean it, because I’ve seen you interject and actually say something when you see something.
Cliff and guys like him, on the other hand (and I know you like him), doesn’t. Despite the very moving “we must stand up against bigotry!” platitude, he has:
- argued against gender-affirming care
- argued with people concerned over anti-LGBTQ bills in the American politics thread (and then pretended he couldn’t name one anywhere here)
- shared anti-trans catholic mom blogs and tried to pass them off as scientific papers
- never stood up to bigotry here, possibly the easiest platform to do so on (and not just in situations where he could have missed in, but in threads where he was an active participant, defended the right to share the bigoted opinion, or even criticized people for using “bigot” as a label)
Last time he was confronted with the fact that he never confronts far right beliefs, he said he didn’t see any value in being one of the people to stand up against it.
People don’t need to be given a list of laws and policies worldwide before they “gain perspective,” change behaviours, or take action. And who is going to believe they will when the type of people demanding it can’t even raise a finger to shut down someone making fun of pronouns.