[bluejays]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

I was very hesitant whether I should post in here... but I did want to put in some general observations on how people discuss topics that I hope might help others. Feel free to ignore my post.

I honestly believe my existence in such threads merely contributes towards noise that derails discussion. I just want to be a wall flower and listen, understand and learn more. I'd like to continue having a view from 100 feet up, continuing towards my personal journey without the opinions and comments from others. I'm not trying to do a drive by, but please also don't drag me in and insist I take a stance.

Engaging in this topic on the internet often seems completely different than real life.

My general observations and greatest concern with these types of topics is that it honestly feels like people behave and interpret posts as if everyone is posting in pure caps lock... like the difference between posting only, "I am happy." vs "I AM HAPPY!" The amount of annoyance, disdain, misinterpretation, responses (whereas sometimes there would be none if the post wasn't in all caps) etc. if posted with zero context in another thread, seem to occur in such threads as if all posts were emotionally charged and interpreted if they were typed out in all caps. It would end up creating all sorts of noise to the point where the noise drowns out whatever reasonable dialogue could be had. I know some people are pessimistic to the ability to have dialogue, but I personally don't think the answer is opposing monologues either.

Additionally, I find that topics of this nature often devolve into simply finger pointing as who someone things the enemies are and who the allies are... whether or not these speculations and opinions are accurate. Again, this is just noise or the vast majority of people use filters to the point they only focus on those comments they identify with and filter out those they do not. This just means that everyone goes in and exits in the same place they were before. That's not really useful in a situation where there is a movement involved hoping to build traction and momentum IMO. Wouldn't any movement be better measured in its success based on how many people the movement "redeems/integrates" without the use of force? All movements benefit with the increase of allies. All movements do not benefit from the increase of enemies.

To use the Chris Pratt meme: "I don't know where I stand in relation to this topic... and at this point I am too afraid to ask." That's how I feel on the internet for this topic and similar topics and I think many others are the same.

Some individuals are relatively neutral and willing to be open minded. By open minded, they don't want to stay where they are, but they also don't know where they are standing in the case of the topic and where they want to go/end up in the case of the topic.

They'll immediately run into others on the internet who are on either extreme side of the topic and be told, "This is where you stand. Feel bad about it." or "This is where you stand. Good job." But these comments are also damaging IMO because this dialogue automatically goes in the direction of sorting individuals as heroes or villains. It also accurately or inaccurately associates an individual to a description of a fixed point then tells the individual to stay there. This hurts both sides because theoretically creates more and more abstain votes. The abstain votes hurt both sides because in a movement, you need movement, not a large majority told to stay idle. Someone should not carelessly obstruct someone who is uncertain on where they stand from movement, then disregard how they could have cause someone to subjectively feel like they shouldn't continue moving either.

Again, this is what I've observed with the online discussions. Reality is completely different from my experience.

The reality I've experienced, the coolest people every with differing opinions and not letting those opinions dissuade them from awesome and meaningful friendships, interactions and growth.

Online, the smallest things are used to draw lines and separate/fragment groups into smaller ones. That's why I believe there's got to be a better way to discuss this stuff online.

Well said. If someone gets a sniff that you’re not sure where you fully stand, it’s a time to paint the person to the opposite side until they feel the need to justify their belief. The internet becomes an echo chamber. It’s important to understand where people come, yes, from both sides, to bridge gaps and misunderstandings, or beliefs that need to be massaged a little. Internet discussions on these things tend to just be silly discussions amounting to finger pointing and aligning to extremes. It’s the equivalent of talking without listening, and dying to get that extra like in.