Quote:
Originally Posted by Itse
Hamas has said and been a lot of things like many organizations with a history. Many here keep pointing out that they say they want to destroy Israel without mentioning they have ALSO said they would accept peace if the borders were returned to where they were in 1967, among many other things which clearly suggest that they do consider peace and co-existence as an option.
Which is true? Obviously both, because Hamas isn't a hive mind. There were and are people filled with hate in the organization as well as much more reasonable freedom fighters. As well as some people who genuinely just want to do good within the strongest organization in the area.
Hell, the hate-filled terrorists can surprisingly often be the exact same people who want to legitimately help their local community. Individual people can also go down different paths when given different opportunities.
As already mentioned in the thread, Hamas used to be a lot more in the business of building schools and hospitals and creating a livable country for Palestinians. More specifically, that was the path they had been moving towards before the blockade started. That looked like the path they were on, which is one of the reasons they were seen as a votable option. (The key factor was that they were seen as significantly less corrupt, which was at that point probably true too.) There was an expectation among Hamas that as a legitimate governmental organization they would start to be treated as equals internationally and eventually taken off terrorist lists.
A comparison point would be the ANC in South Africa, which was also categorized as a terrorist organization. Nelson Mandela was also a terrorist. Oh, and the ANC was also supported by Russia for further political complication. The ANC also had it's radicals saying all kinds of unprintable things about the white population in South Africa, yet when the apartheid ended and the ANC took over politically, they were treated like the governing party and not like terrorists.
Of course there are also differences between the history of ANC and Hamas (the most important of which is that ANC was much more of a tent organization for different groups), but the point I'm trying to make is that accepting the Hamas as a legitimate local government was absolutely an option based on historical precedent.
Do I know for sure that if Hamas had been accepted as the leading party of Palestinians, they would have de-radicalized further (instead of becoming more extreme which is what did happen)? Obviously not. The hate did run deep then as it does now. But I would claim that if you did pay attention to the policies Israel chose to pursue and their effects on Gaza, it was just obvious that those policies had an exactly 0% chance of leading to good outcomes, and that other paths did exist.
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Good post in general. Still, two things that should be addressed:
1. While it is true that some Hamas people talked about accepting 1967 borders, when they did ,Oct 7th attack, they claim that everyone they killed was on occupied land and thus a legitimate target. Problem is, they made all their killings on what is Israel's land under 1967 borders. Hence, after Oct 7th their statement about 1967 borders is no longer valid.
2. Accepting Hamas as legitimate government was indeed an option. They were asked to do three things, after they were elected:
Recognize Israel, disavow violance and agree to follow agreements, previously made with Palestine authorities (who were still elected president). Hamas declined. Later they killed or expelled all those, who were loyal to Fatah and elected president, and subsequently cancelled all the future elections. That's how they were not accepted as legitimate government.
Quote:
Quartet on the Middle East set conditions before they would continue to provide aid to the PA or have any dialogue with any member of a Hamas-led PA government. These conditions were: recognition of Israel, disavowal of violent actions, and acceptance of previous agreements between Israel and the PA, including the Oslo Accords.[5] Hamas refused to accept these conditions and aid to the PA was stopped and sanctions against the PA imposed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloc...the_Gaza_Strip
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