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Originally Posted by PepsiFree
I agree there is a difference, but I don’t know. It’s really a case of whether you think “the ends justifies the means” and what you think the end is for each. Hamas’ goal was not simply to murder babies, that was just the horrific means they sought to complete their goal. If Hamas wanted to kill babies as an end, there are plenty of babies to kill in Gaza.
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I don't agree - I think Hamas's goal was to murder babies. The difference I'm talking about is, "we're going to kill enemy terrorists and if it means killing innocents and children as well, that's not going to stop us", versus, "we're going to kill innocents and children because we think they should die". I'm not sure what other "goal" you mean that would be specific to the beheading of civilians.
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At best, you can say Israel does not intend to kill children but it is prepared to do so and will do so to achieve its ends. That Hamas chooses to kill children and Israel makes choices that kill children.
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I think this is a fair characterization, yes.
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Either way, I imagine a parent holding their dead infant and what that person would be going through, and I think it’s the same whether they are Israeli or Palestinian. It’s easy enough for us to talk about the “difference” here, but would anyone stand in front of two parents holding their dead child and tell them one was justified and the other wasn’t? One was barbaric, and the other wasn’t? One was for the greater good, and the other was for nothing? I don’t know.
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I don't think you'd tell that to a grieving parent because it would be monstrous and serve no purpose. I do actually believe, however, that some acts that result in the death of children are MORE justifiable than some other acts, and allow for the possibility that a military action like bombing a building that results in dead children can nonetheless be "for the greater good" in some sense. I have a much harder time dreaming up any scenario, hypothetical or otherwise, where I would be able to say the same about decapitating a toddler.
So, summing up, I still think there is a big difference and that the two are not equivalent, and I also don't think you have to endorse any of Israel's military tactics in any particular case (e.g. the scenario I've been using about blowing up apartment buildings) to think that random murder and mutilation for the sake of nothing is a lot worse.