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DoubleF · 09-01-2023, 11:19 AM

I haven't dabbled with this stuff since a few years before the pandemic. I've always loved Sony. Not because I'm a fanboy, but because they were always just exactly what I wanted at the price point I wanted. But I think it might be fun to do again. People keep thinking phones have caught up, but when you look at the pics later on a computer vs a small portable screen size, it's really not close IMO (assuming half decent ability to capture a shot on auto). The 2-3x bigger sensor size helps to make a huge difference when you zoom in IMO.

TL;DR - Stuff that was produced around 2014-2016 is probably the sweet spot in terms of value, price and incremental increase in quality to your phone. If price isn't an issue would recommend a Vlog mirrorless for your needs. Designed to be portable, great quality pics/vids, has the right additional features and probably easier to re-sell to people who are amateurs.

I highly recommend buying used if you know it's been treated well, but also consider going to places like Bestbuy and poke around the open box stuff.

https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product...s-kit/14686183

This one is a bit bigger that what I personally prefer and more than/all you need but the open box discount is pretty substantial. IMO I wouldn't spent more than $400-800 on a set up to play with. Re-sell the moment you get bored and it'll only cost you that <$500 you want to spend.

IMO for a point and shoot, I still think it's probably the RX100 Mark 4 or later (I think it's at 7 or 8 now). Don't get a Mark 1 though. The Mark 2 was a huge leap vs the Mark 1 and addressed a hardware issue the Mark 1 had. The RX100 Mark 2 and 3 cameras I find are still shooting slightly better pics from almost a decade ago than what I get now on a modern phone camera. The phones are catching up on those though. I think we paid around $500-600 on the one we got my in-laws. We got around 3-4 years on it so it was worth it as a present I guess. It started collecting dust and then it got destroyed when their basement flooded. Mark 4 or 5 I think would be the sweet spot for you. Looking it up, mark 4 is when dual recording was first introduced where you can take pics while recording video. I love this feature and I use it in most cases on my phone. You can make sure you capture something (video + pics) for things that are hard to capture and you get very good (not highest quality) shots rather than old school trying to see if you could extrapolate the occasional frame from a video. I think 5 introduced the "vlog" features of a flip up/or view finder etc.

In the same vein, I had a Sony NEX-5 mirrorless camera as well relatively soon after it was released. I think it was either that or the Nikon V series. That's a decade ago? Damn. All in I think I spent $900-1100 for the camera plus accessories and extra pancake lens. I got a solid 5-6 years out of it and I think it honestly still does better than my current phone camera in all categories other than autofocus. I primarily used the 18-55 lens on it. Getting into a good habit/routine for whipping it out and snapping a few shots as fast as you might do with a phone takes a little time, but once you do, it feels great. As of today, the only thing it's probably lacking IMO is dual recording, faster/better auto focus and perhaps improved megapixels. You'll easily get all of that and more on many mirrorless 2-3 generations (released 2013-2016 ish).

I abused the #### out of that camera and my now wife literally dropped it half a dozen times and some random plastic bits popped out here and there, smashed lens covers (replaced) and whatnot. I was lucky it seems to have 9 lives, and it still works. I literally did not use a camera bag. Just an inner pocket in a well designed backpack/messenger bag. Profile wise, you need something with a good accessible pocket that's probably just around the size of a suit jacket pocket. Easy reach, unzip, wrap the strap around wrist, lens cap + flick power button simultaneously and square up. I hated having an extra camera bag.

Size wise with the 18-55 lens it came with, even though on its own it probably takes 4-5 times more space than a phone, it's surprisingly small in profile. It only sticks out a wee bit more than your knuckle when you take pics and it's so much more natural to hold when trying to get a still shot. The natural balance of a camera helps a ton with taking great pics and utilizing angles correctly vs some of those ultra ####ty angled people take pics at with weirdly tilted phones. Tilting the viewfinder screen and shooting a straight pic is also nice vs always being stuck with a 90 degree fixed position with phone cameras which would require I kneel for some of those shots.

Although it has been collecting dust, every year I keep thinking about pulling it out and using it again. When traveling it wasn't horribly oversized. The other thing I loved was using a tripod and just doing great pics myself vs some of the awful stuff I get from asking strangers (plus I wouldn't really ask just anyone to take a pic with my phone in Europe). I also like how I can back up my cards daily or swap out the memory cards into a different bag before asking a rando for help for a few pics in a "just in case someone steals my camera scenario".

For mirrorless sized camera and bigger though, the accessories you need at times sometimes 1/3 to 2/3 the cost of what I paid for my cameras at around $150-500. Bags, add on flashes, remotes, tripods, cloth bags, padded bags, covers, extra lenses, lense caps, filters, cleaning cloths etc.

I often bought larger cleaning cloths and wrapped accessories with them. Basically sorta like padding but worked for wiping lenses as well.

But tripods... god damn that's the real headache I have. An excellent one that's exactly what I need, sturdy, ultra light, fast to deploy AND balanced isn't cheap. After a few years, they can get messed up and even after repairing them they aren't the same. I know people who are beyond hobbyists for cameras and basically low level professionals and they're awesome. But I can't justify it and I wouldn't dare borrow them for fear of damaging them.

09-01-2023, 11:19 AM	#19
DoubleF Franchise Player Join Date: Apr 2014 Exp:	I haven't dabbled with this stuff since a few years before the pandemic. I've always loved Sony. Not because I'm a fanboy, but because they were always just exactly what I wanted at the price point I wanted. But I think it might be fun to do again. People keep thinking phones have caught up, but when you look at the pics later on a computer vs a small portable screen size, it's really not close IMO (assuming half decent ability to capture a shot on auto). The 2-3x bigger sensor size helps to make a huge difference when you zoom in IMO. TL;DR - Stuff that was produced around 2014-2016 is probably the sweet spot in terms of value, price and incremental increase in quality to your phone. If price isn't an issue would recommend a Vlog mirrorless for your needs. Designed to be portable, great quality pics/vids, has the right additional features and probably easier to re-sell to people who are amateurs. I highly recommend buying used if you know it's been treated well, but also consider going to places like Bestbuy and poke around the open box stuff. https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product...s-kit/14686183 This one is a bit bigger that what I personally prefer and more than/all you need but the open box discount is pretty substantial. IMO I wouldn't spent more than $400-800 on a set up to play with. Re-sell the moment you get bored and it'll only cost you that <$500 you want to spend. IMO for a point and shoot, I still think it's probably the RX100 Mark 4 or later (I think it's at 7 or 8 now). Don't get a Mark 1 though. The Mark 2 was a huge leap vs the Mark 1 and addressed a hardware issue the Mark 1 had. The RX100 Mark 2 and 3 cameras I find are still shooting slightly better pics from almost a decade ago than what I get now on a modern phone camera. The phones are catching up on those though. I think we paid around $500-600 on the one we got my in-laws. We got around 3-4 years on it so it was worth it as a present I guess. It started collecting dust and then it got destroyed when their basement flooded. Mark 4 or 5 I think would be the sweet spot for you. Looking it up, mark 4 is when dual recording was first introduced where you can take pics while recording video. I love this feature and I use it in most cases on my phone. You can make sure you capture something (video + pics) for things that are hard to capture and you get very good (not highest quality) shots rather than old school trying to see if you could extrapolate the occasional frame from a video. I think 5 introduced the "vlog" features of a flip up/or view finder etc. In the same vein, I had a Sony NEX-5 mirrorless camera as well relatively soon after it was released. I think it was either that or the Nikon V series. That's a decade ago? Damn. All in I think I spent $900-1100 for the camera plus accessories and extra pancake lens. I got a solid 5-6 years out of it and I think it honestly still does better than my current phone camera in all categories other than autofocus. I primarily used the 18-55 lens on it. Getting into a good habit/routine for whipping it out and snapping a few shots as fast as you might do with a phone takes a little time, but once you do, it feels great. As of today, the only thing it's probably lacking IMO is dual recording, faster/better auto focus and perhaps improved megapixels. You'll easily get all of that and more on many mirrorless 2-3 generations (released 2013-2016 ish). I abused the #### out of that camera and my now wife literally dropped it half a dozen times and some random plastic bits popped out here and there, smashed lens covers (replaced) and whatnot. I was lucky it seems to have 9 lives, and it still works. I literally did not use a camera bag. Just an inner pocket in a well designed backpack/messenger bag. Profile wise, you need something with a good accessible pocket that's probably just around the size of a suit jacket pocket. Easy reach, unzip, wrap the strap around wrist, lens cap + flick power button simultaneously and square up. I hated having an extra camera bag. Size wise with the 18-55 lens it came with, even though on its own it probably takes 4-5 times more space than a phone, it's surprisingly small in profile. It only sticks out a wee bit more than your knuckle when you take pics and it's so much more natural to hold when trying to get a still shot. The natural balance of a camera helps a ton with taking great pics and utilizing angles correctly vs some of those ultra ####ty angled people take pics at with weirdly tilted phones. Tilting the viewfinder screen and shooting a straight pic is also nice vs always being stuck with a 90 degree fixed position with phone cameras which would require I kneel for some of those shots. Although it has been collecting dust, every year I keep thinking about pulling it out and using it again. When traveling it wasn't horribly oversized. The other thing I loved was using a tripod and just doing great pics myself vs some of the awful stuff I get from asking strangers (plus I wouldn't really ask just anyone to take a pic with my phone in Europe). I also like how I can back up my cards daily or swap out the memory cards into a different bag before asking a rando for help for a few pics in a "just in case someone steals my camera scenario". For mirrorless sized camera and bigger though, the accessories you need at times sometimes 1/3 to 2/3 the cost of what I paid for my cameras at around $150-500. Bags, add on flashes, remotes, tripods, cloth bags, padded bags, covers, extra lenses, lense caps, filters, cleaning cloths etc. I often bought larger cleaning cloths and wrapped accessories with them. Basically sorta like padding but worked for wiping lenses as well. But tripods... god damn that's the real headache I have. An excellent one that's exactly what I need, sturdy, ultra light, fast to deploy AND balanced isn't cheap. After a few years, they can get messed up and even after repairing them they aren't the same. I know people who are beyond hobbyists for cameras and basically low level professionals and they're awesome. But I can't justify it and I wouldn't dare borrow them for fear of damaging them.