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Originally Posted by TorqueDog

The idea that one can present themselves as a man or a woman in terms of outward appearance etc. without physical or hormonal treatments? Again, this is not anything novel.

OK, so what I'm trying to explain is how that is a part of gender transition, just like medical intervention is, and that they are not separate or completely removed from each other. Like, "gender transition," when you use that term, includes both non-permanent and permanent changes. Yes, someone can pick and choose what elements of gender transition are needed, and don't need to pursue medical treatment, but when you use the term "gender transition" or "transitioning gender," even though gender and sex are different, you are referring to a category of things that includes medical treatments.

Changing your sex characteristics through hormones or surgery is gender transition, just as changing your name, pronouns, or dress is.

Suggesting that they are separate things, or that gender transition excludes anything medical or permanent, would be fairly novel.

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

There are biological and mental factors outside of gender dysphoria that could influence a person's decision to do so. Are they the most common reasons? Probably not, but that doesn't mean they aren't there. Try not being so condescending for a change.

Sorry for being condescending, I was just following your lead and, to be honest, was really bothered by Matata's post, so my back is up.

What are the biological and mental factors outside of gender dysphoria that lead people to "transition sex" and how prevalent are they? Genuinely curious.

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Again, it appears Cliff is specifically talking about affirming gender based on the gender binary when we understand gender to exist on a spectrum. If you want to argue about that more, you can take it up with him, my whole intention was to try and parse what he posted in the first place.

Yeah, that's why I mentioned Cliff specifically when I said it, and I very much doubt his comment is that innocent considering what he replied to and the conversation being had when he made the comments, but you're free to interpret it however you want. Just don't tell me nobody said it when I made it clear who I was referencing from the beginning.