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curves2000 · 08-09-2023, 03:18 AM

Seems like some of the positive information we had regarding the counteroffensive has really died down in the last few weeks and is now turning quite negative. Reports of significant pullback in some areas as a result of staggering losses in both men and equipment is taking a toll on strategy and moral.

Russia had a LOT of time to prep serious levels of defenses across huge swaths of the frontline while NATO and western countries sat around and discussed a few tanks here and there for a grand total of 300 or something? Jet's in 6-9 months. Perhaps 25% of those tanks disabled within days of the offensive starting.

Ukraine has been given a lot of tools, equipment, training, intelligence and more. Can Ukraine really do what the west and NATO wants and that is liberate their land and gain back Crimea? That has been he starting point for Ukraine's leadership and nothing less.

Will the supporting allies provide significant long range missile support right away? Can they get top notch air defense, artillery and airforce equipment?

Are we asking them to do something that hasn't been done before with regards to beating an opponent without air superiority and having enough tools in the toolbox so to speak? We may be headed towards an inflection point where the roosters may be coming out to roost.

If we don't have major advances soon, is the chance that Ukraine regains it's land going to fade or will the west get serious about sending enough equipment and training enough people on top notch gear to win going to happen? Lot's of bright, young men with 8 weeks training on a tank but not enough to win.

I think because Kyiv is fairly well protected along with Liviv in the west people feel this has been fairly successful. If Ukraine loses 30% of it's territory, 3 million people injured or killed and even more displaced, can we call it a success?

I know a lot of pro Russian sided people kind of laugh at some of the coverage and the optimism that a lot of us have with things but I am starting to think we might not be getting anywhere near the full story.

08-09-2023, 03:18 AM	#12162
curves2000 First Line Centre Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Calgary, Canada Exp:	Seems like some of the positive information we had regarding the counteroffensive has really died down in the last few weeks and is now turning quite negative. Reports of significant pullback in some areas as a result of staggering losses in both men and equipment is taking a toll on strategy and moral. Russia had a LOT of time to prep serious levels of defenses across huge swaths of the frontline while NATO and western countries sat around and discussed a few tanks here and there for a grand total of 300 or something? Jet's in 6-9 months. Perhaps 25% of those tanks disabled within days of the offensive starting. Ukraine has been given a lot of tools, equipment, training, intelligence and more. Can Ukraine really do what the west and NATO wants and that is liberate their land and gain back Crimea? That has been he starting point for Ukraine's leadership and nothing less. Will the supporting allies provide significant long range missile support right away? Can they get top notch air defense, artillery and airforce equipment? Are we asking them to do something that hasn't been done before with regards to beating an opponent without air superiority and having enough tools in the toolbox so to speak? We may be headed towards an inflection point where the roosters may be coming out to roost. If we don't have major advances soon, is the chance that Ukraine regains it's land going to fade or will the west get serious about sending enough equipment and training enough people on top notch gear to win going to happen? Lot's of bright, young men with 8 weeks training on a tank but not enough to win. I think because Kyiv is fairly well protected along with Liviv in the west people feel this has been fairly successful. If Ukraine loses 30% of it's territory, 3 million people injured or killed and even more displaced, can we call it a success? I know a lot of pro Russian sided people kind of laugh at some of the coverage and the optimism that a lot of us have with things but I am starting to think we might not be getting anywhere near the full story.