Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
What have I said that doesn't make sense.
Repeated a story with very few elements in it.
- two vets thought Hartley was hard on youth
- he coached Bennett is his rookie season
- they mentioned he was hard on Bennett specifically
- never said Hartley was responsible for ruining Bennett
- never said other coaches didn't have a hand in ruining Bennett
- never said Bennett didn't have a hand in his own development
If you focus on what I actually said, you've never really had anything to argue about, right?
|
Sure, I can pull up what you said.
Quote:
I got it from a pretty good source back in the day that Stajan and Giordano both told Treliving (separately) that Hartley was absolutely ruining the Flames younger players, and spoke to Bennett specifically.
That if you wanted to develop your youth Hartley had to go, because his mind games with the younger players.
Bennett stories around telling him why he wasn't playing center or playing with good players (say faceoffs), only to have Bennett work his ass off to fix the issue, and then be told another reason.
|
First - Sure, I guess you never exactly said he ruined Bennett. Just that he was … absolutely ruining young players, specifically Bennett. My apologies. I don’t know how I took that away
Mea culpa
I will say I still don’t think that detail makes sense, in terms of timing, and suggested perhaps somebody misremembered something. That’s all
Just odd that Gio and Stajan reportedly back in the day were raising huge flags about a guy being ruined when he wasn’t underperforming in any way. The working his ass off but not being given a reason seems to map logically time wise to subsequent coaches
You say you didn’t assign validity to it, but I questioned it, and you did say it was reliable. Then explained your view that technically they did spend a season together, so it was not impossible. Fine, just doesn’t pass the smell test for me
Drawing a conclusion that he played favourites and treated players differently, Stajan’s interview reinforces that. That Hartley was disliked? Sure.
I just found it odd that while the brush was out to paint anyways, it seemed like an odd time to throw Bennett in there too. I remembered Hartley publicly gushing about the player at times, and did not recall his situation being a notable issue at the time
Then I thought about this.
You know who Hartley treated poorly? By Stajan’s account, lots of players.
You know who he treated well? Josh Jooris. (Forever a Flame) He awarded Jooris one of his ‘always earned, never given’ spots. Jooris did get a good chunk of time with Gaudreau and Hudler in 14-15, Then he spent more of 15-16 playing with Stajan.
I could see that as some confusing messaging for a young player. Hartley ruined Staj’s linemate Josh Jooris. Wrung out of him all he could, chewed him up and spit him out, and ultimately Tre let him free. Jooris tenure as a post Flame NHLer was not that noteworthy
Well, that was fun
Stajan’s story covered a lot, shed light on the dysfunction, and like I say, talked about some good and necessary things that Hartley brought to the team. I view him as a character in the broader 2000-2020 Flames arc that brought about necessary change, and ultimately left after his hard nosed style wore out its welcome. You could tell Stajan was left disliking him.
Some people hear it and all they hear is ‘see, we know all we need to know, that guy was a horrible guy’. I feel sad for them because it seemed they went in there looking for only that and taking only that away. As mentioned, there was lots to unpack in Stajan’s testimony
I do think there’s a more interesting observation about the team being coach killers over the years. Like I said, Stajan described how they came together as a team, unified the team understanding of Hartley’s tactics, and mutinied
Maybe Staj and Gio doing the best they could with what they learned from the previous regime.
This one’s for you, StrangeBrew.
Stream of consciousness blather.
Josh Jooris. Forever a Flame