Quote:
Originally Posted by Cole436
I think I’m being really clear that I am not discouraging any criticism of the game, and if you read any of my posts I acknowledge that there are valid criticisms of the structure and narrative. I also state that people are allowed not to like or enjoy the story. In no way in any of my posts have I been gatekeeping the game or pushing away criticism of it.
My issue, very clearly, is how people talk about Neil.
Of course in 2023, his star has grown considerably from the HBO series, his appearances on the after show, and starring in the podcast. My comment about people only knowing Drukmann due to the gamergate community was specifically targeted to the audience in 2020. I should have been more clear with that.
I want to be leave no ambiguity: My problem is not criticisms of the game. It’s the personal attacks on Neil Drukmann in regards to his “ego” and the whole narrative of him making a power play to clear the board at ND so he gets all the credit. That is the playbook of the GG crowd.
I also don’t think criticising Neil is off limits at all, and I think we should be challenging his ideas. But it’s the tone in which it’s done that makes me feel uncomfortable. I really can’t think of any filmmaker, game director or writer who is criticised in such a strangely personal way.
I also want to restate that CP is not in a bubble. When people who are familiar with the discourse and issues with TLOU community read comments such as H&L, it is similar in content to the posts from the GG crowd. I know that’s not where H&L was coming from, but I think it’s important to make people aware of how things could be interpreted due to widespread anti-semetic comments that follow that same structure.
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I don’t think you’re entirely understanding what I’m saying since you keep repeating exactly what I’m referring to, but I appreciate your perspective.
At the heart of it, what I’m trying to say is that nobody who didn’t fully wash themselves in the gamergate class of criticisms of the game is going to see H&L’s post and even think there’s anything remotely anti-semitic about it. Nor should he have to be mindful of what others were saying. If his comments had nothing to do with that, they should be able to exist on their own, but you are purposely not letting innocuous comments live on their own, and I think it’s doing the opposite of the good you think it’s doing.
Think about it this way. I’m unaware of any anti-semitic opinions about the game. H&L makes his post, I read it and think nothing of it. You read it and you say it has the flavour of a lot of anti-semitic criticism. You say of course you’re not accusing him of that, etc, but we all need to be aware of anti-semitism. So, what’s my first thought? For any normal person coming in blind, it’s “Oh, is H&L secretly anti-semitic?” You’re focused entirely on the section of people who know all about it and
might pick up something in H&L’s post, for everyone else (myself included) you’re putting the idea in their head that H&L might be anti-semitic, or had been trying to sneak an anti-semitic remark past us. Is that fair?
Is that fair to that poster, or any poster, who isn’t bringing any sort of bigotry at all to the discussion? I hope you agree that the answer is “no,” so I hope you just evaluate the impact
your words have, even if you excuse them as being for the greater good. Sometimes the best intentions don’t play out the way you think they will and they definitely aren’t here.
“I really can’t think of any filmmaker, game director or writer who is criticised in such a strangely personal way.”
A lot of producers, directors, and actors get the same treatment. James Gunn immediately comes to mind. Leonardo Dicaprio. Tom Cruise for years. Quentin Tarantino. I could probably go if I put any thought into it.