[timun]

Copied from the TV series thread:

Originally Posted by Shazam

What did people not like about the second game? I watched the cutscenes and it's fine.

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I haven't played it but the main character is part of a marginalized minority community that incels don't appreciate.

So they flooded the internet with comments of disdain.

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Hard to discuss without talking about the 2nd game but I think the hate has more to do with various factors:

[...] The story is about interpersonal hatred and how far you would take vengeance for just about everybody involved with massive kill counts. The first game had a glimmer of hope that you were trying to make an effort to make the world a better place in the end. I don't care for this at all. It's clever but I'd rather play almost anything else than to go home and play something depressing and emotionally disturbing.

I have heard the first and second game's themes being contrasted as "what one man would do for love" and "what two women would do for hate (or vengeance)".

I had this to say about the second game's conclusion in the TV series thread:

Originally Posted by timun

I recently completed Part II, and I won't lie: I didn't even want to finish the game's final conflict. I think that's why, at least in part, the second game was received somewhat controversially. Ellie makes regrettable decisions that I as player did not want to carry out.

The whole point of the two games is ultimately, to me, to be left wondering "is the decision this character chose 'right'?" Joel's choices in the first one to mow down the Fireflies, save Ellie, and lie to her about it are interesting ones because it begs questions like "could he have found another way to go about this and not kill all those people?" and "if he truly loves Ellie, can't he find a way to tell her the truth rather than straight-up lie about it?", and of course "what would I have done if I was in that situation?" And I liked that the second game's narrative tied directly into this and showed that even in a post-apocalyptic world these sorts of choices have consequences.

But that said, the second game consists of a series of choices that I—and I think a lot of other players—absolutely would not have made. Or at least eventually, after a certain point, I wouldn't have made them. Joel's choices were somewhat limited in that he had few options, and critically I felt like he never would have had the option to walk away. Ellie and Abby could have walked away from their respective vendettas at pretty much any time, and quite purposefully didn't. I as player didn't want to go through with the game's actions and story near the end, because I would have walked away. And I think that's really bad storytelling, when you put a controller in a player's hands and make them go through with something they are half-heartedly doing for the sake of the game's completion.

It was also quite difficult for me to sympathize with Abby in the first place, not just because of the narrative jumping back and forward in time and thus not presenting as cogent a storyline as they could have, but because of the choices she makes being... awful. With Joel I felt like he was ultimately a 'good' guy who did 'bad' things, whereas there was a lot to dislike about Abby aside from her actions against Joel/Ellie. Even within her own friend group she was a bit of a POS, especially her relationships between Mel and Owen.