[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by etdpratt

Great, and it goes back to my argument of what is the right moral standard/framework? What you have adopted in your own life? Because you set the bar in different places, and I bet it's changed over the course of your life. So are we always supposed to expect everyone to accept your moral framework as one everyone should support?

Yes, people often change positions when new evidence comes to their attention or someone makes a good argument. As long as you have appropriate reasoning behind the change, it's not an issue to do so.

But if that framework comes from a religious/spiritual foundation, then you have a huge issue with it. Whether from the belief in supreme being or one that you have recognized as your "source of truth", what you deem as "wrong" may not hold in the views of others.

I can't speak for others, but I do have a huge issue with it. Arguments that come from religious convictions are based on faith, and not based on reason or evidence. Moreover, they tend to be dogmatic, citing doctrine or scripture and verse, and the funny thing about that is the doctrines and interpretations change over time depending on the societal norms and culture, so it isn't even consistent depending on the era.

Many Christians, Muslims, etc... believe fornication is wrong. Or gambling is wrong. You could argue there's actually a sound argument for those in terms of why going against those standards can cause many societal problems. But, they are supposed to follow and support your standards, without any expectation of reciprocity.

The irony of saying "people realized it was wrong" when that is again based on your moving standard. So you are asking everyone to adopt and actively support where you have agreed to move the goal posts, but if a Christian asks you to actively support a cause they follow, that's religious oppression?

People realized it was wrong because it caused horrifying psychological damage and long-term consequences of the abused becoming the abuser in their adult years, perpetuating a cycle of violence. That's supersedes a purely moral argument because we have good evidence and sound reason to support the idea.


You don't need religion to make good choices for society, you just to understand consequences of behavior.