[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

It's not in my interest to defend China at all costs, but I do see a fair number of ignorant (sometimes even jingoistic) statements bandied around about China, and those kinds of statements are increasing in frequency as the US and US allies ramp up for more conflict with China.

Of course China has real problems too and does things I oppose, and Canada has legitimate interests to protect. I'm all for Canada doing things to protect Canadian systems and sovereignty. Why not? I'm just also firmly on the side of human development writ large and regardless of nationality, and CP is already full of voices advocating for Canadian interests but very few who present anything from a more China-sympathetic point of view.

For all the voicing of fears about "the threat of China" as you perceive it, for most of the world's population China's rise and China's interest in global commerce is actually a good thing for development and improving quality of life. Success of any country in particular means much less to me than broad-based development, safety, health and wellbeing. Personally, I'm very opposed to nationalism. I'm also really opposed to xenophobia and the like that comes from the exploitation of nationalist sentiments or ethnic identities.

The US right now is combatting a multi-polar world and will pull allies into a fight for that, but what does a multi-polar world mean? It means countries like China, India, Brazil, maybe even Indonesia rising up with economic power and output that matches their populations. That's 42% of the world's population just in those countries. Insofar as it's done peacefully and leads to broad-based development, I celebrate and support the rise of those populations and the populations of countries in their trade networks, and insofar as the preservation of an existing world order comes at the expense of those populations via intentional suppression of their development, I oppose that. To that extent, you could say I'm someone who supports a multi-polar world and an end to a unipolar world, but because of wanting to see broad human development and not because of any sense of nationalism.

I think that might be in the eye of the beholder. There are no shortage of stories of human rights abuses with the belt and road initiative, or China's Debt Trap Diplomacy. I'm not say the history of the west in poor nations has been some glorious success, but I'm also not the one suggesting China's foreign actions are good, either. Are you aware of these things? All I see is a dismal future for any country that has gotten into China's fingers. Can you provide any examples of success?