Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG
Joel’s love (If people insist on calling it that) for Ellie is a selfish love not a selfless love. He acts because he can’t lose her not because he wants what best for her or respects her ability to make the decision.
If he lets them live then when Ellie wakes up she could go back. That’s the decision he took away. Then when he lies about it it prevents her from looking for other firefly’s who may have information on the same research. I don’t understand how you can think that Joel didn’t take away Ellie’s choice on whether to sacrifice herself. He first preserved her choice by saving her (holding the doctor at gunpoint with the doctor saying I won’t stop) and then made the decision for her by killing the doctor and Marlene. He also specifically kills Marlene to prevent her from coming after them. He ends any possibility of Ellie making the choice on whether to sacrifice herself.
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To the first part, yes and no (or maybe!). He very clearly acts because he can’t lose her and because he believes living is what’s best for her instead of… you know… dying. Unless you think otherwise healthy people are better off dead for themselves.
Ellie also tells Joel that everything she did can’t be for nothing. By lying to her, he’s doing two things: trying to protect her belief that it wasn’t “for nothing” (that they tried, and did what they could, but it wasn’t meant to work out) and to ensure that everything he had just done wasn’t for nothing. What would have been the point for killing all those people, even with the doctor and Marlene spared, just to give her the choice to go right back. You criticize the character for not evolving beyond being a murderer and criticize him for his murders not being pointless enough. Funny, right?
Of course, it’s obvious that she knows he’s lying and accepts it anyway, so in a moment where she has agency and could abandon Joel, she doesn’t, and would rather agree to believe the lie than go on without Joel.
I don’t think you’re supposed to feel that Joel is without fault or if you’re even supposed to like Joel. That seems to be why the ending is so good. But I think you lose critical information by dismissing the motivations/development of the characters that is clearly laid out. I don’t know if you’ve played either game but I get the feeling you’d like the second one based on the themes it goes into a little more deeply.