Quote:
Originally Posted by Monahammer
Hm I strongly disagree about reality here, and I am not declaring it, this fact you outline below has been corroborated in this very thread, but if you require further evidence, fine (many people have already done this work for us):
https://law.duke.edu/sports/sex-spor...c-performance/
- Duke puts the difference between elite female to male athletes at 12-14% increased performance.
To combat your next flow of statements though, it's not entirely one way. In fact, there is evidence to show that estrogenized bodies (i.e. women) have a greater capacity for long term endurance.
https://www.sciencefocus.com/the-hum...urance-sports/
- there are differences in muscle fiber density between men and women, leading to more fast reaction muscle fibers in men.
- Women are better at burning fat stores for residual energy
- Women seem to have a psychological advantage relative to energy expenditure (unwilling to blow it all immediately)
No, I think I showed above that males have specific advantages and females do to. So it may be that specific categories are only needed in specific sports. But it remains clear that (and you admit this yourself later) there are far more athletes within these categories that stand to be harmed by inclusion of an outlying performer than the individual that would benefit arcanely from this sense of inclusion.
I think the solution is 2 new categories. and if the competition is small in those categories, maybe that encourages more athletes within those categories to train and elevate themselves to that threshold.
May I ask, what is the benefit to the trans individual to participate in the standard gender category? Is it limited their gained inclusion in that category? |
None of this proves where the balance of harm lies because you haven’t accounted for the reality of the situation, which includes the number of trans atheletes, the natures of individual sports and whether division is necessary, any harm related to your proposed division, the biological difference between trans women or trans men based on age of transition, etc.
“Men and women each have advantages so you need to separate them” is mostly just lazy for the reasons I listed above and the reasons in the second post you quoted. You’re also suggesting your position is the most moral position, and you’ve provided nothing that supports that (you actually contradict it).
What’s the benefit for trans people to compete in cis gender categories that match their post-transition gender category? Pretty simple I think: trans women are women, and trans men are men, and if all men compete in one category and all women compete in another category regardless of their unique biology, skill set, etc, then that’s where they should naturally compete. If you’re saying we actually need to mix that up because of unique biological factors that may or may not apply or even give an advantage or disadvantage, then why are we not broadening it beyond the exclusion of trans men and women from competing with anyone else?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monahammer
Ah you've lost the plot here, IMO. You're questioning the ultimate validity of sports competitions.
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Are sports competitions above questioning? Isn’t that what we’re all doing right now, is questioning exactly how “fairness” in sports is determined when it comes to biology? This is the plot. If you hold the position that there is some sort of gospel that can’t be questioned, maybe you’re in the wrong conversation?