[Lanny_McDonald]

Some really great commentary in this thread and appreciate all the various takes as I read through. A little surprising as I expected there to be a little more connection to spirituality from some. Some of my favorite comments and thoughts on them in hopes of spurring on more discussion in those areas.

Originally Posted by Geraldsh

We are a biological accident , no smarter than the average dinosaur or we would be working together to improve this planet. Enjoy your life as long as you can when you’re done you’re done.

This is kind of where I am as well. As Desmond Morris framed it in 1967, we are just The Naked Ape and promote ourselves to the top of the food chain. If other animals have no soul why would we? The sheer arrogance of our species to make claims of superiority over all in the universe, known and unknown, is hard to fathom at times. While I think we're done when we're done, I can't be certain of that fact, hence the question.

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Worm food, but at least my molecules will live on when they are recycled into the food chain and enter other beings. My conscious self is gone forever, but the things that made me live in eternity.

It's a simple principle of science: Matter and energy are neither created nor destroyed*, they only change forms.

(*exceptions made for anti-matter annihilation of matter)

Cali brings forth an interesting point. Our corporal body made die, but the molecules and energy released at death and as we rot remain in the universe and become shared. The air we breathe contains molecules shared by other sources of life back to when life began. So in a way, very small pieces of ourselves do experience immortality.

When we die what happens to the energy that exists in our cells and within the soup of our brains? As Cali suggests, that energy is not destroyed, so what becomes of it? There must be transference to some next level? This concept was explore by Duncan MacDougall at the end of the 19th century and start of the 20th. He studied dying people and discovered that immediately after death their bodies lost (on average) 21 grams of mass. The explanation behind this was this was the weight of the soul leaving the body. Is the soul just the energy from cells dissipating or releasing into the atmosphere around the dying body? Or is the soul something real and is the energy from the body?

Originally Posted by Sliver

In one of the religious studies courses I took in university I did a paper on NDEs. I didn't delve into the religious side of them because, well, I've yet to see, hear or read a single thing that indicates religion is anything other than preposterous.

The only thing that suggests there would be an afterlife stems from all of us being steeped - against our will - in ancient religious thought. Nothing else points to an afterlife and, frankly, the whole notion is ridiculous. Of course there isn't. Snap the fata out of it. It's 2023.

Sliver never disappoints in making a topic weird. I like the discussion of NDEs, and yes, there are theories that it is just brain chemistry, but there is nothing conclusive to this research, one way or another.

It is well known that as we experience trauma the brains releases chemicals like adrenaline to help the body survive. When the brain senses it is dying it floods itself with neurotransmitters to help keep it alive. This causes neurons to fire like crazy and cause all sorts of false sensory phenomena and memory encoding errors. It actually has been replicated in the lab and activity visible in fMRI scans. This brings the validity of NDEs into question and the claims of proof of an afterlife into serious question.

Much of afterlife belief does come for our upbringing and religiosity so there is that link. We must also acknowledge it is hard to discredit something where faith and belief are entrenched, especially when more people believe in angels than global warming.

Originally Posted by #-3

I think it's pretty clear we have physical consciousness, if for no other reason than witnessing the effect of physical changes to the brain.

For that reason I feel the framing of the question is wrong, rather than trying to prove the lack of afterlife the burden should be on affirmatively proving the existence. Why on earth would you think there is one? The only reason seems to be cultural memory of superstition from when we as a society had far less ability to explain the world.

I didn't realize the question (Life after death: Does it exist?) was framed any particular way? It's a very simple question free of actual framing. No bias or loaded language in the question, just a simple question. Kind of like, "The sky: Is it blue?"

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Life after death beliefs are born out of religion.

Religion = biggest con job in human history

There's your answer

Not going to disagree on religion being a con job, but every religion or spiritual pursuit presupposes the soul/spirit exists or continues on after the corporal body dies. Personally, I think this is our fear of the unknown and wanting to be able to justify our struggle as human animals, believing that there must be more for us after all we go through in our lives. The idea that our lives and actions are inconsequential and pretty much meaningless in the big picture is hard for most people to wrap their heads around. We build ourselves, including our species and our planet, to be the penultimate example of existence there is, so for it all to mean nothing just doesn't resonate with the masses. Religion and spirituality explain our struggle and give it meaning.

Originally Posted by edslunch

The idea that we will go somewhere and meet all of our ancestors and deceased pets is bizarre. What age will they be to us and what age will their ancestors be to them? Would we have the same relationships, good and bad, and the same shared memories? Will we forever be someone’s child again? Will heaven be a giant social event where I can feel awkward for eternity? Eternity sounds awful.

I do, however, believe there is more than our physical life. My wife’s family lived with ghosts, at least what they all independently experienced as ghosts, and they are far from alone.

Wonderful take on this question. I love the questions you ask, because I've asked the exact same ones. I think that if there is an afterlife that it will be of our own making and we choose the perceptions we have of those we interact with. We will choose whether our father is aged as we last saw him, or if he is more like the young man when we were children and we can have do the many things we never got to do. Our dogs/cats/ friends will all be as we best remember them and we will only have the positive interactions/engagements we had when they were at their peak. Again, that's what my perceptions of "heaven" would be, if it exists, which I'm five-nines sure it doesn't.

The concept of ghosts is always an interesting discussion because it is both supporting and contradictory to most religious beliefs about the afterlife. I'm with you and have seen some pretty bizarre things, but we must also acknowledge that the imagination is a powerful thing. That is not to say that everything experienced in this regard is imagined, just that when in certain situations (dark spooky places) our imaginations can get the best of us. There are plenty of instances where stuff happens in the cold light of day or when we are not in a state where our imagination is working overtime that cannot be ruled out. A completely different thread that would be fun too, but I can see how it is relatable here as well.

Originally Posted by ah123

I stumbled upon a book called “Journey of Souls” by a hypnotherapist called Michael Newton. He took some of his clients back to before birth and provides a summary of the conversations. No idea if he made the whole thing up or if it was real, but there were interesting nuggets that I have come across in NDE literature and my reading on Sufi teachings (Sufi traditions = mystical traditions within Islam).

It was interesting to see similar accounts. I guess, at some point in the future, I will find out for real [emoji52]

Memories of past lives is a real thing and a field of study. This is very weird as people have incredible recollections from previous lives and recall details that they would have no other way of knowing without experiencing them. Is this evidence of reincarnation? Such a strange subject but really confounds discussions and belief systems of the afterlife.

Thank you all for sharing. Again, really good discussion.