[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Captain Otto

I think I read somewhere that there are 1800 police services/forces in the US. That's a crazy number and as you said, likely the reason why there are so many issues down there.

Agreed. The lack of standards is what makes it impossible to compare the two LEO communities. While you firmly believe you are the same because of the brotherhood of the thin blue line, the reality is you have no idea how the system works and how ugly it is. I applaud Canada for maintaining a high standard and properly training their cops on how to perform their duties, especially with the community in mind. Police work in the United States is very adversarial and at times antagonistic. I don't think that has seeped into the Canadian system yet, but as I said earlier, I can't speak to that because I have not had contact with the LEOs up there in a very long time.

I think you've mischaracterized Grossman's books. I think you need to read them before you can pass judgement because they are far from a handbook teaching cops to kill. While he has faced criticism, his books are well researched and well written.

There is a lot of disagreement in this area. Grossman's research has been considered shoddy and biased. Slate did a report on police training and focused on Grossman's tactics and research. Grossman believes in something called killology and has founded a Killology Research Group.

From the Slate article.

"Grossman travels the country offering continuing-education seminars to cops and cop-adjacents. He musters scientific research, anecdotal evidence, and a boatload of presuppositions in order to prepare his students for the realities of combat, while valorizing the notion that the thin blue line is humanity’s last bulwark against total societal collapse."

"When people talk about military-style policing, they are often referring to the militarized gear and weaponry that many police departments prefer these days: the body armor, the semi-automatic rifles, the armored SWAT Humvees equipped to recapture Fallujah. But the gear is just a symptom of these departments’ gradual adoption of the premise that the world is now a theater of war and that battles are most easily won through the liberal use of shock and awe. “You’ve probably heard of the Big Bang Theory,” Grossman says in Unit 2. “I call this the Bigger Bang Theory, which states that, all other things being equal, in combat, whoever makes the bigger bang wins.” Combat has clear military connotations, and Grossman’s frequent use of the term undergirds the course’s martial framing."

"Take it from me, a proud holder of a certificate of completion from Grossman Academy: “On Combat” teaches its students to fear and resent the people they serve, to willfully mistake this contempt for bravery, and to believe that heroism is conferred by the barrel of a smoking gun. This philosophy, as manifested by the countless police officers and officials who subscribe to it, is and will continue to be one of the foremost impediments to meaningful efforts at police reform in towns across America."

You have to be somewhat concerned when the three training modules available on Grossman's website are "The Bullet Proof Mind", On Combat", and "On Killing". Grossman believes in developing and maintaining a warrior mindset, which is counter to what law enforcement (peace officers) should maintain when they hit the streets.

Our agency brought Grossman to do a series of sessions for our officers and it is as described. The warrior mentality is a real thing and the officers who took those training sessions were of a different mindset, more comfortable or willing to engage in the use of force.

From the Peters article, "Many have argued that “warrior cop”–style training seminars teach law enforcement officers to start from a place of fear, which can lead them to quickly turn peaceful situations violent. The officer who shot and killed Philando Castile during a 2016 traffic stop in Falcon Heights, Minnesota, had attended a “Bulletproof Warrior” course co-taught by Grossman and a colleague, Jim Glennon, two years earlier. Over his career, according to the Minneapolis Star Tribune, that officer had clocked more than 100 hours of trainings on topics such as firearms usage, street survival, and the use of force—but had only attended two hours of de-escalation training."

Grossman himself is a closeted Chirstian Nationalist, although that becomes abundantly clear on his "truth" site where he includes content such as "On Spiritual Combat" and "Prayers and Promises for First Responders". He learned his lessons well in the military and has taken that message to the marketplace after his retirement. His message is very much everything that is wrong in law enforcement and why we are where we are. The militarization of law enforcement has brought the tactics and attitudes of war to the streets of America.