Thread: Save or Else
View Single Post
Old 12-27-2004, 04:03 AM   #13
Flame Of Liberty
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sydney, NSfW
Exp:
Default

Okay, we should start with looking for a middle ground, because or views fundamentally differ on crucial things, therefore our conclusions are incompatible. The glaring example – profit. Whereas you, in accordance to marxist views, see profit as an evidence that the rich eploit the poor, that the rich capitalist steal surplus value that righfully belongs to workers. On the other hand, i see profit as a result of mutualy voluntary exchange that always increases utility of all parties involved. In other words, free markets always and everywhere bring mutual benefits – where one gives up what he values less than what he acquires. No one is exploiting anyone.

Consequently, while you see capitalism as a wild jungle system where the weak are at mercy of the strong, i see capitalism as system where thanks to the comparative advantage the weak have the best chance to utilize their abilities, eventhough they are weaker in every facet of the game. In other words, capitalism is the only way how the poor can increase standards of their living, in fact that is exactly what has happened in the western world over last century.

The fact this is not widely understood shows in the thread about China, where posters seem to think its is bad for foreign companies to invest in rural China and „exploit“ peasants living there. The fact that peasants working even for a buck a day are better off than before is not seen. Therefore in no way they are taken advantage of, on the contrary, they are given a chance they never had before. Simply, capitalism and globalization increases wealth of all involved.

That brings us to another problematic point. History of capitalism. I honestly do not know from where did you get the idea pure capitalism destoroys the poor. Couple of things. First, if you look into history how people lived before the industrial revolution (beginning of the capitalism as we know it) the poor lived in clay huts together with their animals, they had no running water, not to mention electricity, average life span was 40 years. How many people in the US live like that?

Here is a study about American poor The Myth of Widespread American Poverty. It is a very interesting read, one thing how the poor are classified – for example, in the year 1995 70% of households classified as poor had one car, 27% of households classified as poor had 2 or more cars. 41% of „poor“ households own their own home and their average home has 3 bedrooms. Isnt that ridiculous?

Just shortly after industrial revolution, working masses could enjoy higher living standards than rich feduals did only years earlier. To suggest that capitalism caused enmasse poverty is ridiculous. If you are interested in facts, here is another article The Myth of the Working Poor. It is a real eye opener for all on the left side of the spectrum, who cannot distinguish between cause and effect.

If you talk about American dominated third world countries, i hope you arent telling me these countries are capitalist countries? Becasue you couldnt be further from the truth, free markets are non existent there, rule of juntas and dictatorships on the other hand flourish. Again, the problem are totalitarian regimes and lack of capitalism/globalization and not that there`s too much of either.
Flame Of Liberty is offline   Reply With Quote