Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebot
Need I remind you that Ukraine used to have nukes which would have acted as a deterrent against Russia from an invasion? And they were given away with a signed declaration from Russia in the Budapest Memorandum to respect Ukraine's borders and sovereignty?
You cannot trust or appease Russia. Period. Chamberlain wanted to avoid WWII through appeasement by giving Germany what it wanted and and ended up getting it anyways against a much stronger German opponent.
And beside, Ukraine gave Russia concession terms at the start of the war that included neutrality which Putin outright refused.
This was never about NATO but about rebuilding the Russian Empire
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Ukraine also agreed to split the Black Sea fleet with Russia where Russia got to keep 9 out of every 11 ships at the port. The agreement was more generous than Russia deserved. Part of the decision was because the fleet was expensive to maintain, but there was a level of goodwill and generosity as well.
I do think that when all is said and done, NATO and the West are going to have a level of acceptable loss in order to eventually get peace and stability. I think that the 4 currently occupied territories are a non-starter though and must be returned fully to Ukraine. There will be no bending on that. Crimea on the other hand, I think is seen as something they will negotiate with. I think that is one of the main reasons the bridge is still there. It makes a land bridge nice to have, but not necessary, and therefore Russia more malleable in negotiations.
Crimea would also become something Russia could lose in the future if they don't behave. Kind of like giving a child something to lose if they don't listen to their parents.
I don't believe NATO is as unified as it presents itself. Countries like the U.S., Poland, and the Baltics will definitely want to go the full mile, but some of the other ones have questionable resolve. God forbid Trump wins in 2024, because that could be a killer. It's still too early to know how that is going to go, but I personally see it as a deadline for this thing to end in Ukraine's favour.