Quote:
Originally Posted by afc wimbledon
Let's go over this slowly shall we, I am not saying that any and every time a man has sex with a drunk girl he is raping her, what I am saying is that when he has sex with a drunk girl she has not consented legally, that the law by now is clear, you cannot assume consent when a girl is wasted or drunk, you are hoping her mind will be the same sober at 10am as it is at 2am when she's drunk but the girl gets to decide at 10am if she consented 8 hours before.
And, least you think I mean that the girl decides to change her mind, that is not what I'm saying, I'm saying she hasnt given consent until she sobers up and decides if she is cool with what happened the night before, as a guy I am not prepared to put myself in that situation for two reasons, I dont want to risk being accused of about the most heinous crime there is and frankly I dont want to risk actually committing that crime just because she seems really into it but I dont realise how wasted she really is because she did a bump or two in the bathroom and seems to be ok.
As to the argument that women have a right to have drunken sex with dudes, it's what their grandmothers fought for along with the vote god dammit!!
of course women can do what ever the hell they want, as a man though I have to decide if what I am about to enter into is a bit of drunken fun that we will both enjoy or if I am unwittingly about to do her massive emotional damage that will haunt her for the rest of her life, personally I dont want to take that risk
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I fully respect that as a personal position, as long as you don't see it as "the only truly moral position" or something like that. You know yourself and what's fair to ask from you in your life.
It's just good to remember that a lot of people trying to have sex lives are sad and lonely and miserable and filled with weird kinks and hangups and bad communication skills, and a lot of people hang in social circles with a different relationship to alcohol and sex than you.
Some people just choose to live less risk-averse lives than you, for good reasons or terrible reasons, but in any case their own reasons. I don't think one is better than the other. There's a lot of choices I've made about sex which I would never recommend as rules to live by to others, but which were the right choice in that situation.
I feel like there should be a more honest and nuanced public conversation about this whole topic. To me it seems that all too often the positions around sex and drugs, and just bad sex and weird motivations to have sex, is way too black and white. Too often this discussion happens only in the context of rape, and then the popular opinions seem to be "she was asking for it, she made those choices, what did she expect" or "he's obviously a monster".
In these discussions you always have to boil things down to "do you think this specific person abused that specific person", and that's extremely limiting.
There's just so much that people do that's messy and problematic that isn't bad or assault, or anyone's fault even when things go bad, but we never talk about.