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Old 03-16-2022, 12:11 AM   #4600
PaperBagger'14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timun View Post
EDIT:



Alrighty, first of all:



Wager accepted.


That out of the way:



Again, I have a copy of it, and I have read it. I'm subtly reminding you that there is a glossary in Section 0, so that you read it...



I know precisely what I'm talking about. The problem here is that you are a self-professed expert on all electrical matters—stereotypical electrician —you don't like being reminded that other people also know what they're talking about, and can't admit when you're wrong.

And you are wrong on this matter, categorically.



And you're so close to figuring out how you're wrong!

I'll save you the trouble of having to look up the definition of luminaire:
Luminaire — a complete lighting unit designed to accommodate the lamp(s) and to connect the lamp(s) to circuit conductors.
A "unit designed to accommodate the lamp(s)", not the lamps (light bulbs) themselves, thus Rule 2-004 does NOT apply to a ####ing light bulb. And of course it doesn't, on the face of it that'd be just stupid. If that was the case why aren't you out there drumming up business for yourself, reminding the Building Services department that homeowners can't be out there replacing light bulbs on their own? Because they'd laugh you out of the room, that's why.

And if that's not enough to convince you (because I can already hear you arguing from here about how the luminaire is a "COMPLETE LIGHTING UNIT, THEREFORE THAT INCLUDES THE LAMPS!!1!") let's circle back to your earlier post:



First you say "there is no reference to any appendices which allow for the inspection department to overrule this," but then you turn around and say "this would never be enforced". So which one is it, bucko? If this cannot be overruled, how is it that it is never enforced? I'll let you pause and ponder that for a moment.







The truth is, of course, that the code is adopted by regulation and absolutely can be overruled by the authority having jurisdiction. It is overruled all the time. That's why the Ministry of Municipal Affairs publishes STANDATA.

You know what's a real interesting STANDATA? 21-ECB-002, specifically the bit about Rule 2-004. I'm sure you know where to find the STANDATA in question, but for everyone else's edification it says:
"The Permit Regulation supersedes this rule. Part 1 of the regulation sets the requirements to whom permits may be issued and under what conditions, as well as where permits are required throughout the province. Part 2 sets the requirements for administration of the Permit Regulation."
I'll close the loop for everyone and quote the Permit Regulation (AR 204/2007) for you; bolded and red is my emphasis:
Electrical permit
8(1) A permit in the electrical discipline is required to install, alter or add to an electrical system.
(2) Despite subsection (1), a permit is not required for the following:
(a) communication systems;
(b) electrical installations to which the CSA Standard CAN/CSA M421-00(R2000) The Use of Electricity in Mines applies;
(c) electrical installations related to an elevating device;
(d) extra low voltage, Class 2 electrical circuits unless they
are for any of the following:
(i) safety control;
(ii) locations described as hazardous in the Electrical
Code;
(iii) electro-medical purposes;
(iv) lighting;
(e) the replacement of electrical equipment with units of a similar type if the replacement is made for the purpose of maintaining the system and does not modify the ratings or characteristics of the electrical installation.




So explain to all us peons, oh mighty electrical expert, how we need permits to replace our light bulbs. Please, we're all waiting on bated breath.
Ooooooh we gonna have fun here. First of all the STANDATA won't stand up in any court if you're trying to override the CEC, it's failed many times before and I'd be glad to prove it. The STANDATA is a localized guideline but if you break the CEC, regardless of local STANDATA you will lose in court.

Second of all, you can call me an engineer sugar t!ts.

Thirdly:

[B](e) the replacement of electrical equipment with units of a similar type if the replacement is made for the purpose of maintaining the system and does not modify the ratings or characteristics of the electrical installation.

Is the average homeowner capable of understanding the ratings and types of electrical devices in their home? They are not. The CEC does not care for this. You either follow the CEC or you do not. The lawsuit is on you for breaking it and STANDATAS have not stood up before in front of a judge. I will never engineer something to break the CEC or stamp it because it's my ass on the line. So no, you're wrong.

If you follow a STANDATA but subvert the CEC you're still liable for damages caused by your install, even if it's a lightbulb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puckhog View Post
Everyone who disagrees with you is stupid

Last edited by PaperBagger'14; 03-16-2022 at 12:19 AM.
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