Quote:
Originally Posted by Itse
I get a feeling people here are massively underestimating the impact this has had on the atmosphere in the large part of Europe that's bordering Russia.
The opening salvo in public opinion has been stuff like "nationalize all Russian assets" and "deport all Russians". That's just day 1 stuff, and it's going to get a lot uglier, especially in places with a more recent grievances than what Finland has. I grieve for Russian civilians, it's going to be hard.
The popular view is that Ukraine is just first to get attacked, if Putin is not stopped, and possibly even if Putin is replaced. People are quoting poetry going back more than a hundred years warning never to trust Russia. Not trusting Russia is the natural state for much of Europe anyway, it's generational memory. So many countries have national heroes who fought Russia and libraries full of art about how awful it was under Russian rule.
There might have been a gap in this experience with a generation or two growing up without that constant fear, a hope that we might have entered a new more civilized era, but the idea has always been somewhere in the back of our heads, that discomfort in hearing that ####ing anthem. Now it's out again, and frankly the hate comes as easy as breathing.
Every Russian is suspect, every asset is questionable, today and tomorrow, no matter what happens in Ukraine. We forgot that for a second, we won't again in a generation. We might not want to fight that enemy, there might be times when we even co-operate, but they will remain our enemy, even in peacetime, even if we smile politely.
Helping Ukraine is not a matter of solidarity, it's plain self interest. Every Russian soldier that dies in Ukraine is one less to threaten everyone else later.
There's just no coming back from this, not unless Russians topple Putin, and even then we would be extremely suspicious of the next guy, and the next.
Because we have been reminded of what has always been true; you can never trust Russia.
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Excellent post! One thing that people don't understand is that under Putin, Russia has swinging **** syndrome rightfully or wrongfully on a whole host of issues. There is a bravado to Russia.
They know their influence on energy, on their significant industries, their people and how how they travel. Major European cities and countries have significant business dealings with Russian clients and tourists who spend massive amounts of money. They have parked billions and billions of dollars in single cities like London and have massive influence in other countries. You literally go to places like Cyprus and you actually think you are in Russia with their influence. It's like something you have never seen before!
They are a smaller, less powerful version of America in some ways. They show up, park their butts down and do what they want.
You are correct and way too many people aren't thinking logically about this. The notion from Putin is if you aren't going to give, we are going to take. End of story