[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

No, you can’t distill my case down to ES vs PP time, and ignore line mates. That is silly, and I am sure you know it.

I am not the one ignoring linemates. I am the one e plaining to you that context matters, and even at his absolute peak, the context behind Monahan's results was deeply rooted in how the Flames utilized him, despite him not having necessarily deserved such usage when contrasted with his peers at the centre position in terms of overall skillset.

And yes, guys who are on PP1 will get a lot of points that inflate their stats. That's not to say PP points are less important, but a guy not on PP1 cannot be compared to a guy on PP1 with a basic point totals analysis.

Saying "Ferland only produced 20g/40p despite first line usage" is disingenuous at best - first line implies all situations - playing with Gaudreau at 5v5 does not mean he was utilized as a first liner. PP time is a major factor in defining "first line usage".

So compare apples to apples.

Which, for all intents and purposes, is limited to 5v5.

Ferland had his career year, getting 21/20 when playing with Gaudreau who was top 10 in both overall and ES scoring (60 pts)

Actually Gaudreau had 51 points 5v5, Monahan had 39, and Ferland had 35 that year(also in the lowest total icetime of the three). Monahan also spent more icetime with Gaudreau ( 924:49) than Ferland spent eith Gaudreau (770:34).

Monahan is playing now with Trevor Lewis who had a career high 26 points when he was in his prime, 5 years ago.

Think about that. Trevor Lewis got 26 points playing with guys like Nick Shore, Kyle Clifford and Andy Andreoff. Tell me again how awesome Ferland is for getting 41 points, playing with Johnny and Monny.

And tell me you are surprised that Monahan is not getting ES points

I wasn't comparing 2017-18 Ferland to 2021-22 Monahan. I was comparing 2017-18 Ferland to 2017-18 Monahan, which was your own lazily analyzed comparision (i.e. "Ferland was only a 40pt player where Monahan was PPG even though they both played with Gaudreau). You've changed the goalposts suddenly.

As far as 2021-22 Monahan goes though, blaming Trevor Lewis for Monahan's lack of impact is missing the forest for the trees. Monahan's job isn't to produce like a 1st liner 5v5. It's to produce like a 3rd/4th liner 5v5 and drive play when there's nothing there. Something guys like Versteeg, Bennett, Jankowski, Ryan, Hathaway, Ferland, Lucic, Lewis, Chiasson, Richardson, Stajan, Dube, Jagr, Colborne etc etc have all managed to do in the bottom six with unideal linemates. And beyond production, even guys like Reider and Nordstrom and Pitlick have shown an ability to impact the game somehow.

Monahan is giving us nothing 5v5. And he's spent enough time with Dube and/or Mangiapane that it's also disingenous to be blaming Trevor Lewis.