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Old 09-23-2021, 12:09 PM   #192
Leondros
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleF View Post
These are the types of guys CRA was looking into blitzing a few years ago. That was the issue with the CRA demanding the commercial customer list from Home Depot. Anyone who was buying a crap ton of stuff from there at major discount but somehow not really paying taxes are likely going to get blitzed hard if they can't prove what they used the materials for.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6036682/c...my-home-depot/

The underground economy is estimated to be worth around $50 billion a year in Canada. Even conservatively at 10% on average (ie: You can't get them all), that's 5 billion in uncollected taxes per year.

I do not believe that we have an overwhelming about of taxes lost per year like the USA. Panama papers wise, lots of posters are just talking out of their ass in terms of what they thing is being dodged.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/cra-p...ears-1.5974690

CRA has recovered around 21 million via 35 of 200 cases.

Of the stashed money, 540 of the 900 cases identified filed appropriate taxes and didn't warrant an audit or around 60%. It's not every single individual that was identified was hiding income. That leaves around 360 cases where CRA needed to take an extra look. 21 million divided by 35 cases x 360 = around $200 million. That's quite a bit of dodged taxes, sure, but that's a one time thing via multiple years worth of dodging. The underground economy in Canada is arguably worth at least 5x that amount PER YEAR ($5 Billion / $200 million).

Extra taxes on the ultra rich rather than targeting the underground economy in Canada is like cutting down your orchard for a tiny bit of extra lumber income and screwing yourself over long term because the orchard business is basically done. No fruits, no labour, no transportation, no fruit side business etc. That's what some others are saying in terms of the ultra rich (the majority who are seemingly paying their taxes) being squeezed to the point they just take their assets and go elsewhere.

Also, keep in mind that in a few cases, the CRA does indeed know of certain targets who are seemingly not paying their fair share. They have knowledge something is going on, but they don't have the evidence necessary for a slam dunk win (and the ultra rich are obviously not going down without a fight).

You also have to consider that CRA audit is also technically a business. If it's going to cost them $1,000 of time and effort to open up a case and collect $300 of extra taxes and interest and penalties, they lose money. Time and effort is finite, so it's better to spend $1,000 on trying to chase a $10,000 case. The margins are better. Spending $10 million for maybe a chance at $13 million in a few years is dumb from a business standpoint when CRA has so many opportunities to easily spend $10 million and get around that each year for a few years (ie: project industries).

That being said, the vast majority of morons who think they're basically small fries and think the CRA wouldn't waste the man power on them... are basically morons. The CRA doesn't need to waste human labour to flag individuals. This is automatically done via technology. Yes, the CRA is a bit of a dinosaur that still uses facsimile in the 2020s onwards, but they have computers. Those reviews and requests for information that most people easily send the necessary info to satisfy the request? Most likely nearly 100% pure automation.

Lastly, if someone is going to point at some of the ultra rich in Canada and think that everything they have is tax evaded, you're hilariously misinformed. Someone like Edwards who is resident of UK for tax purposes, still pays taxes in Canada due to the Canada UK treaty. The vast majority of his wealth is in a Canadian company, paying Canadian taxes. CNRL for instance is a publicly traded company. That's right out in the open and obviously taxed. If someone like Edwards is dodging certain Canadian taxes, the CRA hops right over to CNRL and says they have to withhold taxes before transferring funds out of Canada. It's not rocket science to enforce. Pattersons, Thomsons and Weston families? Again, right out in the open. The most that maybe they dodge is maybe some additional income/appreciation on acquisitions/sales of assets acquired using post tax income.

That's what things like the withholding tax, FAPI rules and FAD rules address. Don't know what those are? Sit down and just accept that Canada has rules to chase down foreign income to ensure taxation. Plus there's rules to ensure taxes are withheld before sending cash overseas (and how do they bypass through our oligopoly of Banks?). I mean maybe there's bitcoin, but again CRA will know how to track that soon and the amount they're trying to save is often a pittance vs the headaches that would arise from being caught. It's basically not worth it for them. I know many people have no confidence in humanity, but it isn't always as bad as they make it out to be.
Thanks - well written, glad someone understands the ITA

There is not as much circumvention of taxes as the media makes it out to be. The rich are an easy target but the ITA is actually very well designed to contemplate tax avoidance. And when it doesn't it usually gets covered off by our friend the General Anti Avoidance Rule.

As for the underground economy, another one I heard the CRA is really pushing to look at is service related tips. The amount of stories I have heard from servers and bartenders clearing $50K in tips plus per year untaxed is insane. Multiply that by how many people work in the industry and that is a far larger number in missed taxes than the rich we are talking about...
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