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Swift · 07-15-2021, 03:09 PM

Firstly, I have no affiliation with Toronto (I've spent all of a day there) and didn't know who Henry Dundas was before this morning (The wikipedia article suggests that he's a more nuanced character than just all round bad guy - He disagreed with slavery in principle, and successfully fought a court case in Scotland's highest court which resulted in slavery being prohibited on Scottish soil. The contention stems from him tabling an amendment to a proposed bill to end the slave trade inserting the word "gradual" rather than "immediate". Some historians argue that this was a calculated move to indefinitely delay abolition; some argue that the bill wouldn't have passed without the word "gradual" in there. Either way, it doesn't seem as cut and dried to state that he was an anti-abolitionist) A clearer argument I've seen put out there for not having a street named after him is that he'd never been to Toronto and had no connection with the place. The street was named after him by a a Lt Gov of Upper Canada who was a friend of his. But again, I have no strong opinion on him or the street being re-named.

However, I saw in the CBC article that the re-naming of this one street will cost $6m+. Surely there's a better way to spend that money? Surely there's a better way for that money to actually help disenfranchised people in the city? What does re-naming the street actually achieve? Is anybody's life made better by this? I find it hard to believe that the average black person previously walked down the street constantly thinking "this is the street named after the guy who delayed the passing of the Slave Trade Act in Britain in 1792 and this makes me really upset" I would imagine that the vast, vast majority of people gave no thought whatsoever to who the street was named after and never heard of the guy anyway, in much the same way we walk down Stephen Ave without constantly wondering who the street is named after and what he was like as a person.

I get that it's a symbolic gesture that will have some meaning for some people, but it's ultimately a quite hollow gesture (and potentially expensive if more and more street name origins are investigated)

07-15-2021, 03:09 PM	#328
Swift Not Taylor Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Calgary SW Exp:	Firstly, I have no affiliation with Toronto (I've spent all of a day there) and didn't know who Henry Dundas was before this morning (The wikipedia article suggests that he's a more nuanced character than just all round bad guy - He disagreed with slavery in principle, and successfully fought a court case in Scotland's highest court which resulted in slavery being prohibited on Scottish soil. The contention stems from him tabling an amendment to a proposed bill to end the slave trade inserting the word "gradual" rather than "immediate". Some historians argue that this was a calculated move to indefinitely delay abolition; some argue that the bill wouldn't have passed without the word "gradual" in there. Either way, it doesn't seem as cut and dried to state that he was an anti-abolitionist) A clearer argument I've seen put out there for not having a street named after him is that he'd never been to Toronto and had no connection with the place. The street was named after him by a a Lt Gov of Upper Canada who was a friend of his. But again, I have no strong opinion on him or the street being re-named. However, I saw in the CBC article that the re-naming of this one street will cost $6m+. Surely there's a better way to spend that money? Surely there's a better way for that money to actually help disenfranchised people in the city? What does re-naming the street actually achieve? Is anybody's life made better by this? I find it hard to believe that the average black person previously walked down the street constantly thinking "this is the street named after the guy who delayed the passing of the Slave Trade Act in Britain in 1792 and this makes me really upset" I would imagine that the vast, vast majority of people gave no thought whatsoever to who the street was named after and never heard of the guy anyway, in much the same way we walk down Stephen Ave without constantly wondering who the street is named after and what he was like as a person. I get that it's a symbolic gesture that will have some meaning for some people, but it's ultimately a quite hollow gesture (and potentially expensive if more and more street name origins are investigated) Last edited by Swift; 07-15-2021 at 03:32 PM.