[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by _Q_

You're just parroting zionist trope that would not apply to any other circumstance anywhere in the world. You know it as well as I do.

So the UN can just arbitrarily carve up a land, without first negotiating with the inhabitants of the land and the surrounding nations?

The UN did arbitrarily carve up a lot of land - From India though Europe.
As mentioned earlier the UN partitioned Pakistan from India and there was a mass migration in both directions. Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan are all UN/British creations. Syria still claims Lebanon, Iran claims parts of Iraq, the Khurds claim part of Iraq. The Balkans are a mess of boarders. I lost track of what Turkey claims.

Here's a thought experiment. How would you feel if the UN decided to carve up western Canada into some unworkable mess where half of it would remain for Canadians and the other half for another group. The UN also failed to consult with the Canadian or US government. Oh and your home is located in the part that no longer is part of western Canada, so too bad, you need to pack your bags and leave.

Do you think that Canada would just throw their hand up and give in? Would they not declare war on that entity and fight to erase it as soon as possible?

In order for your though experiment to work, then you need to assume there is no Government of Canada (they were removed when they lost the world war). There is no US government yet, either. Also, no one was told to pack their bags and leave until war broke out (unless you believe that the British actively removed Palestinians). Once war broke out then yes, I am sure entire villages were removed at the barrel of a gun. I an just as sure that Jews on the other side were not given first class airfare to the destination of their choice - remember the main flash point today is Jews trying to assert ownership of land they were forced to flee (while, yes, Palestinians cannot assert the same right. There needs to be a mechanism for this and they should all have to wait for an overall peace agreement, not a court case).

I get that the Arabs lost the war and Israel was born because of it. I get that they are now there and it's genocidal to try to remove them now. However, the mere creation of the State of Israel in 1948 was an act of war against the Arabs.

In order to be an act of war there needs to be a governing body on the other side to declare war against. As when Egypt, Syria, and Jordan all did.

If anything the creation of the State of Israel was at most sedition. The Jews who were in Israel declared independence in the area afforded them by the UN.


They didn't declare war on Egypt, Syria, or Jordan. They didn't declare ware on the Waqf of Jerusalem.

What's your point? That's what negotiations are for. I'm sure most Palestinians would be happy to allow Jews into East Jerusalem to pray if it means they can have East Jerusalem as their capital.

Just as I am sure many Europeans had no problem with Jews living next door, right up until there was. There is no way to guarantee it and no trust that it will last.

Living next to another nation means that they are able to protect themselves in the same way that you protect yourself. Anything less than that and its just occupation, plain and simple..

I have no problem with a fully militarized Palestine so long as everyone understands that the first shot - whether by IDF, PA Army, Hamas, ISIS, some lone settler or Jihadi youth- from one country to the next will result in the last war. Any bets on who controls their crazies best?

It's not "Judea and Samaria". It's the West Bank. The fact you call it that is extremely dismissive of the rights of the Palestinian people to their home land. How about we start calling Israel, "occupied Palestine" or "the Zionist Entity" if we're just going to dismiss the existence of each side?

We could call it all by it's earliest know name - Canaan.

Ok. I will refer to the area as the West Bank for the purposes of this message board. Noting that calling the creation of a Jewish state in their ancient homeland, the land where they are from, Judea, a war crime is also dismissive.