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Calgary4LIfe · 05-02-2021, 01:10 PM

After the season is finally over, maybe we can have another vote on Treliving. I know I would change my vote right now.

I think Treliving has spent way too much draft capital building a non-contender. People forget that Sutter was the GM of a contending team, with a scouting and development team that was still being built, and he spent LESS draft capital, no? Only once under Sutter did the Flames not pick in the first round anyway. At any rate, these two teams were at different points along the arcs between 'rebuilding' and 'competing'. There shouldn't have been such a spending of picks, and it is doubly annoying since I do think that this team is a good drafting team.

UFAs have mostly been terrible for the most part - at least too many big mistakes. Lots of buyouts during this time - Raymond, Bouma, Brouwer and Stone. Am I forgetting anyone? Neal was a disaster that I credit Treliving with at least salvaging some value out of (Lucic provides value - not full value on that deal, but he does provide value and I am glad that he is here, plus that was a swindle of a trade I thought at the time).

Treliving has done a lot of good work here. This man does deserve a lot of credit. This team (last year) was a more talented team than they showed on the ice, and were more talented than when he first took over. He needs to be remembered for that.

But his continual hiring of incompetent coaches and not gauging properly where this team was in their cycle is terrible. I am sure some of this was Burke as we know that is his MO, but Treliving is still the GM and is ultimately responsible.

I think one of the biggest factors on this team is defence. In the modern era now (over the last decade especially), defencemen need to have more of a 2-way ability. That was one of Calgary's strengths for years, no? I remember they were consistently near the top of the league for points from the backend. On top of this, they used to have one of the league's better squads at transitioning, no?

Giordano is this team's best 2-way defencemen and it isn't even close. What does this group look like as a unit without him next season? I am actually very worried now. Why should I be worried about losing a 38 year old defencemen who is regressing being moved off the squad?

Tanev - top 4 easily, and able to play on the top pairing. Great, right? Not so fast. He is very one-dimensional. His one dimension is elite - he is one of the league's best defencemen, bar none. However, he doesn't generate squat. Zero. He also doesn't play a physical brand of hockey either. His one dimension is being elite at defence.

Hanifin - he is providing two things - defence and he is solid on the transition. He is not generating offence really. He doesn't look dangerous on the ice. He does transition the puck out of the zone well, which is important, and I do think that next season will bring him more points even if his usage remains the same as I feel this team will transition a bit better overall and start putting more pucks in the net, but he doesn't have the vision to generate like Giordano and Brodie do.

Andersson - I am not sure why he has regressed, but he has. I always thought he looked like he struggled playing on the top pairing with Giordano last year when Brodie was out or there was an experiment going on. I do think he has some vision and has a nice shot, but he hasn't been able to translate it. I think he has looked shaky defensively still.

Nesterov - liked him to start, but what is he really bringing? He is 'meh' in all areas. Not very offensive, not a defensive stalwart, not very physical (though great touch on McDavid the other night), doesn't transition that well though he is decent at moving the puck usually. Just meh.

Valimaki - is shaky this year and hasn't lived to his 'hype', but I am 100% cutting him some slack based on the fact that he hasn't played that many games in his young career over the last couple of years.

Stone - has been physical and better defensively, and has a good shot. He looks much better, but he isn't quick and doesn't transition the puck well. He is a depth defencemen.

Kylington has the most 'promise' as being a 2-way defencemen, but doesn't get any games in, and hasn't developed.

I won't comment on anyone else, but do you see an issue? I don't think I have been too critical on the defencemen. I love Tanev, don't get me wrong. The guy is elite at defence. He just doesn't give enough for both his TOI and value on his contract, especially on a team that already has a difficult time generating from the back end.

Overall, I dislike the fact that 3 of the players that have historically elevated their games in the playoffs are now gone - Ferland, Bennett and Brodie.

Losing Brodie was terrible - both from an asset management perspective, and not realizing that the backend was getting less and less offensive and dynamic. Brodie is an elite-level puck-mover and defender who is a shot-suppression magician. He has the vision (not the shot though) to run a PP, but is best at defending and evading forechecking pressure to move the puck up quickly and help a team counter-attack. The only other defencemen that is able to do this (but has a shot) was Giordano, but he is losing a step.

From a playoffs perspective, Brodie has consistently been the team's best defencemen, and it has never been close.

Bennett has been an absolute beast come playoff time - the type of player you want to acquire, not trade away. Ferland too has been that. I don't know, but is it crazy to think that if you can put together a team with more playoff performers than less playoff performers, that maybe one can expect better results?

Where is this team going?

They are not good enough to compete right now. They don't have a good prospect pool. They started trying to compete too early. They have not been well coached and have developed terrible habits (that finally look like they are breaking slowly).

I think this team has been mismanaged. Not incompetently so, but mismanaged nonetheless. If the bar is set at only "incompetency should be terminated", then Treliving should be retained. I don't think Treliving is incompetent, but this team doesn't strike me as a contender. I do think that under Sutter's coaching, this team will better next season and should even make the playoffs, but this is not a contender.

I would argue that with the state of affairs on defence, losing players consistently who are strong playoff performers, and the startling realization that some big contracts situations are coming up quickly, it looks like things are about to get worse, not better.

This is going to be an damn interesting soap opera this off-season. For the first time since Feaster's last off-season, I worried things will not be handled right.

05-02-2021, 01:10 PM	#2960
Calgary4LIfe Franchise Player Join Date: Jun 2010 Exp:	After the season is finally over, maybe we can have another vote on Treliving. I know I would change my vote right now. I think Treliving has spent way too much draft capital building a non-contender. People forget that Sutter was the GM of a contending team, with a scouting and development team that was still being built, and he spent LESS draft capital, no? Only once under Sutter did the Flames not pick in the first round anyway. At any rate, these two teams were at different points along the arcs between 'rebuilding' and 'competing'. There shouldn't have been such a spending of picks, and it is doubly annoying since I do think that this team is a good drafting team. UFAs have mostly been terrible for the most part - at least too many big mistakes. Lots of buyouts during this time - Raymond, Bouma, Brouwer and Stone. Am I forgetting anyone? Neal was a disaster that I credit Treliving with at least salvaging some value out of (Lucic provides value - not full value on that deal, but he does provide value and I am glad that he is here, plus that was a swindle of a trade I thought at the time). Treliving has done a lot of good work here. This man does deserve a lot of credit. This team (last year) was a more talented team than they showed on the ice, and were more talented than when he first took over. He needs to be remembered for that. But his continual hiring of incompetent coaches and not gauging properly where this team was in their cycle is terrible. I am sure some of this was Burke as we know that is his MO, but Treliving is still the GM and is ultimately responsible. I think one of the biggest factors on this team is defence. In the modern era now (over the last decade especially), defencemen need to have more of a 2-way ability. That was one of Calgary's strengths for years, no? I remember they were consistently near the top of the league for points from the backend. On top of this, they used to have one of the league's better squads at transitioning, no? Giordano is this team's best 2-way defencemen and it isn't even close. What does this group look like as a unit without him next season? I am actually very worried now. Why should I be worried about losing a 38 year old defencemen who is regressing being moved off the squad? Tanev - top 4 easily, and able to play on the top pairing. Great, right? Not so fast. He is very one-dimensional. His one dimension is elite - he is one of the league's best defencemen, bar none. However, he doesn't generate squat. Zero. He also doesn't play a physical brand of hockey either. His one dimension is being elite at defence. Hanifin - he is providing two things - defence and he is solid on the transition. He is not generating offence really. He doesn't look dangerous on the ice. He does transition the puck out of the zone well, which is important, and I do think that next season will bring him more points even if his usage remains the same as I feel this team will transition a bit better overall and start putting more pucks in the net, but he doesn't have the vision to generate like Giordano and Brodie do. Andersson - I am not sure why he has regressed, but he has. I always thought he looked like he struggled playing on the top pairing with Giordano last year when Brodie was out or there was an experiment going on. I do think he has some vision and has a nice shot, but he hasn't been able to translate it. I think he has looked shaky defensively still. Nesterov - liked him to start, but what is he really bringing? He is 'meh' in all areas. Not very offensive, not a defensive stalwart, not very physical (though great touch on McDavid the other night), doesn't transition that well though he is decent at moving the puck usually. Just meh. Valimaki - is shaky this year and hasn't lived to his 'hype', but I am 100% cutting him some slack based on the fact that he hasn't played that many games in his young career over the last couple of years. Stone - has been physical and better defensively, and has a good shot. He looks much better, but he isn't quick and doesn't transition the puck well. He is a depth defencemen. Kylington has the most 'promise' as being a 2-way defencemen, but doesn't get any games in, and hasn't developed. I won't comment on anyone else, but do you see an issue? I don't think I have been too critical on the defencemen. I love Tanev, don't get me wrong. The guy is elite at defence. He just doesn't give enough for both his TOI and value on his contract, especially on a team that already has a difficult time generating from the back end. Overall, I dislike the fact that 3 of the players that have historically elevated their games in the playoffs are now gone - Ferland, Bennett and Brodie. Losing Brodie was terrible - both from an asset management perspective, and not realizing that the backend was getting less and less offensive and dynamic. Brodie is an elite-level puck-mover and defender who is a shot-suppression magician. He has the vision (not the shot though) to run a PP, but is best at defending and evading forechecking pressure to move the puck up quickly and help a team counter-attack. The only other defencemen that is able to do this (but has a shot) was Giordano, but he is losing a step. From a playoffs perspective, Brodie has consistently been the team's best defencemen, and it has never been close. Bennett has been an absolute beast come playoff time - the type of player you want to acquire, not trade away. Ferland too has been that. I don't know, but is it crazy to think that if you can put together a team with more playoff performers than less playoff performers, that maybe one can expect better results? Where is this team going? They are not good enough to compete right now. They don't have a good prospect pool. They started trying to compete too early. They have not been well coached and have developed terrible habits (that finally look like they are breaking slowly). I think this team has been mismanaged. Not incompetently so, but mismanaged nonetheless. If the bar is set at only "incompetency should be terminated", then Treliving should be retained. I don't think Treliving is incompetent, but this team doesn't strike me as a contender. I do think that under Sutter's coaching, this team will better next season and should even make the playoffs, but this is not a contender. I would argue that with the state of affairs on defence, losing players consistently who are strong playoff performers, and the startling realization that some big contracts situations are coming up quickly, it looks like things are about to get worse, not better. This is going to be an damn interesting soap opera this off-season. For the first time since Feaster's last off-season, I worried things will not be handled right.